Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Mistermeaner

Leanne1812 wrote: »

If we can't get transparency on Scotland's revenues how is that remotely possible?

Think yourself lucky I'm responding to you.

Good cop, bad cop ring any bells?

If you reply with yet another insult I'll just scroll past.

The questions don't need details. Have a go if you like

Leanne1812

Mistermeaner wrote: »

The questions don't need details. Have a go if you like

No, I'd imagine you'd just like to ridicule so I'll pass.

These arguments have all been gone over many, many times pre referendum. It's a complete waste of time now. We're not independent nor likely to be anytime soon so what is the point in asking?

Mistermeaner

To try and understand the basis on which thre likes of you ela and shakey think Scotland will be better as an independent state. Its been discussed to death yes but I've yet to see any substance from the pro India people

I thought the 5 points I raised cover the main areas and would allow a brief and simple way to explain your vision of I Scotland so that the sceptics like me can understand your thinking.

You would be the 3rd person to dodge answering which currently is confirming my pre existing view that there is no rational thought behind the independence argument. Care to prove me wrong.

Shakey didn't (she posted a link to a bog that was instantly debunked) Elatan proved my previous comments (rather than 30secs to answer she dug back through 100s of posts in order to personalise it and dodge answering)

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Gen, you never did give me your analysis of a video I posted long ago. It was about economics/Scotland's revenues & how figures can be manipulated & shifted. You told me it was 'interesting'. You didn't dismiss it as nonsense.

So, as yet you or anyone else here have failed to convince me of your arguments that Scotland would be a basket case.

Oil has boosted the treasury coffers by £300b yet some on here don't think the industry is deserving of assistance.

If you repost I'll take a look if I get time. Our nanny/au pair quit with 2 days' notice and so things are a bit hectic at Generali Towers! It's time consuming to take data from a video and put it into a spreadsheet where you can actually work with it.

I can't recall the detail but from what I do remember I think the trickery wasn't so much in the numbers as the way they were (ab)used. For example if I earn $5 a day then I am pretty poor by international standards but if last year I earned $4 then I could be said to be doing brilliantly as my earnings are up 25%.

I keep meaning to try to do a rough and ready extrapolation of GERS out to the current year (IYSWIM) to see where Scotland's GERS numbers are likely to be. We have much of the data so it shouldn't be hard, just time consuming.

Time. Ay yai yai.

Generali

Mistermeaner wrote: »

To try and understand the basis on which thre likes of you ela and shakey think Scotland will be better as an independent state. Its been discussed to death yes but I've yet to see any substance from the pro India people

I thought the 5 points I raised cover the main areas and would allow a brief and simple way to explain your vision of I Scotland so that the sceptics like me can understand your thinking.

You would be the 3rd person to dodge answering which currently is confirming my pre existing view that there is no rational thought behind the independence argument. Care to prove me wrong.

Shakey didn't (she posted a link to a bog that was instantly debunked) Elatan proved my previous comments (rather than 30secs to answer she dug back through 100s of posts in order to personalise it and dodge answering)

The numbers are right there in GERS. It contains estimates because the underlying cash flows don't simply match to Scotland being independent as it is not independent.

Changes would happen as a result of independence, for example HQs of the Scottish financial services industry would have to relocate to England. Maybe tax changes could be brought in to reflect Scotland's economy rather than the UK's, although quite honestly the economies aren't that different ex-oil.

Despite all that, GERS is a pretty good look at what Scotland's finances would look like if Scotland had voted for independence and so was quitting the UK in a week.

Note that independence was slated for the day before the Easter Weekend to give 4 days to deal with a run on the Scottish banking system.

Thrugelmir

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Oil has boosted the treasury coffers by £300b yet some on here don't think the industry is deserving of assistance.

GO did today.

The chancellor has announced a major overhaul of the North Sea tax regime, in response to difficulties facing the UK oil and gas sector.
In his Budget statement, he said Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) would be "effectively abolished", having cut it last year from 50% to 35%.
The existing supplementary charge for oil companies will also be cut from 20% to 10%, backdated to 1 January.

Leanne1812

Mistermeaner wrote: »

To try and understand the basis on which thre likes of you ela and shakey think Scotland will be better as an independent state. Its been discussed to death yes but I've yet to see any substance from the pro India people

I thought the 5 points I raised cover the main areas and would allow a brief and simple way to explain your vision of I Scotland so that the sceptics like me can understand your thinking.

You would be the 3rd person to dodge answering which currently is confirming my pre existing view that there is no rational thought behind the independence argument. Care to prove me wrong.

Shakey didn't (she posted a link to a bog that was instantly debunked) Elatan proved my previous comments (rather than 30secs to answer she dug back through 100s of posts in order to personalise it and dodge answering)

I can only speak for me but there were many reasons to want an Indy Scotland. A small, peaceful nation. I know that sounds idealistic but I believe no nukes & managing a small population that has its own natural resources would be best. A nation where there was hope for a more equal society. I know we are all richer but at the same time inequality has risen and that doesn't sit well with me. An Indy Scotland gave us a chance at change. Lots of reasons but these are a few that spring to mind.......going over old ground here and it seems pointless.

When you say rational are you speaking purely of the economics?

With the information I had at the time I felt we had the ingredients to make a successful independent nation. ( speaking in past tense as its over now) I honestly don't see the point in going over hypotheticals. If and only if Indy2 comes around again and I start taking a keen interest I'll be more open to these arguments. I don't know how else to respond but no doubt you'll think I'm dodging. Much has changed in the last 18 months and I haven't been consumed with the debate, just an observer and occasional contributer now.

What galls me a little is how Scotland is always portrayed as faring so badly yet the finances of the whole of the U.K. are pretty messed up. I've not caught up with today's budget except snippets but by all accounts the forecast isn't good for growth anywhere which means the debt & deficit won't be decreasing as quickly as forecast either.

Leanne1812

Thrugelmir wrote: »

GO did today.

Yes he did and I was pleased to hear it. I spoke of here, on this forum, some don't feel the industry should be helped partly because it's Scottish and we might leave. Some feel that money should be invested elsewhere that's 'safer'.

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I can only speak for me but there were many reasons to want an Indy Scotland. A small, peaceful nation. I know that sounds idealistic but I believe no nukes & managing a small population that has its own natural resources would be best. A nation where there was hope for a more equal society. I know we are all richer but at the same time inequality has risen and that doesn't sit well with me. An Indy Scotland gave us a chance at change. Lots of reasons but these are a few that spring to mind.......going over old ground here and it seems pointless.

When you say rational are you speaking purely of the economics?

With the information I had at the time I felt we had the ingredients to make a successful independent nation. ( speaking in past tense as its over now) I honestly don't see the point in going over hypotheticals. If and only if Indy2 comes around again and I start taking a keen interest I'll be more open to these arguments. I don't know how else to respond but no doubt you'll think I'm dodging. Much has changed in the last 18 months and I haven't been consumed with the debate, just an observer and occasional contributer now.

What galls me a little is how Scotland is always portrayed as faring so badly yet the finances of the whole of the U.K. are pretty messed up. I've not caught up with today's budget except snippets but by all accounts the forecast isn't good for growth anywhere which means the debt & deficit won't be decreasing as quickly as forecast either.

There isn't an economic case for an independent Scotland. There probably was in 1979 but those days are gone and with them much of the oil.

Yes, I'm sure there is a social case to be made for an independent Scotland. If the Scots are going to be happier culturally in some way as a separate country then so be it and they should go their own way.

Scottish people should be very clear however that the drop in GDP of c. 20% will mean fewer holidays and TVs, lower levels of income and welfare, probably worse educational outcomes and certainly more preventable deaths.

I guess it depends on whether you value treating cancer or playing folk songs more.

As for the economic part of your post, the UK's deficit for the last GERS full year was about £88bn. Scotland's contribution to that was about £15bn or roughly double what it should have been on a GDP per capita basis.

Leanne1812

Here it is Gen, bear in mind it is old figures now but what I'd be interested to hear is if he is making false statements.

Cheers.

http://youtu.be/qBzqN4uzyiU