Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Not anti-English. It's just Westminster/Tory politics by and large. There's a fair few English feel the same way if you care to look. Pro EU ? Probably. It all seems a bit 'flat' up here with a load of deja vu re referendum headlines thrown in so far. Maybe it will heat up a bit when Cameron names the date. I hope he has a Plan B.

Salmond ? Remains one of the most popular politicians Scotland has ever produced. Even now. Very astute too. Realised when the referendum was lost, the only way to disassociate the loss from Sturgeon, and keep it all on himself.. was to resign asap and hand the reins over. Brilliant tactics. Nicola Sturgeon got a clean sheet to start with all over again. With great success. :T

I do still adore wee Eck ... and I know I'm not alone

Hey Shake still trying to educate people I see ... I imagine it's going the same way as it was last time I was here lol

Not long to go now, Swinney finally has fire in his belly and Sturgeon is thankfully not playing just as nice as she did before ... and wee Eck ... well he's doing what he does best ... seems to be smiling a lot just now as well

Would still love to see SNP with a Green opposition as I think that's the best ...

Was giggling like mad when the Tories took over Labour the other week ... the destruction of Labour gives me a lot of pleasure I must say

And the Orkney 4 yesterday was a very joyous celebration ...

Politics as always is such fun

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Going for independence at the first opportunity is consistent with my analysis. It fits perfectly with it in fact. If you want independence then you want to set up a neverendum process. If you don't get to ask the question you'll never get a Yes! but if you ask it every few years then in the end you'll get a Yes! by fluke: this year's referendum coincides with the Westminster Government doing something spectacularly stupid (Poll Tax) or a massive spike in the oil price that appears to make the economics compelling.

What the SNP doesn't want is enough freedom that will:

1. Ruin the narrative that I spell out above
2. Show that actually there is nothing special about the SNP's ability to run things. They are venal and corrupt and incompetent just like everyone else.

I suspect that the real problem with devolution is that it gives the SNP just about enough rope....

No the real problem with the current proposals are these :-

6 Sept 2014



09/02/2016


Sticking in people's craws a bit that is. The price of staying in the Union, or leaving it appears to be entering a convergence stage. I expect the below has shot a lot of foxes today also. Including yours incidentally.

NICOLA Sturgeon has vowed to explain how she would use Holyrood's new powers regardless of whether a deal is done to approve the Scotland Bill before the election. The First Minister called on David Cameron to intervene in the deadlocked negotiations over the "fiscal framework," the complex financial arrangements behind the devolution of extensive new tax powers...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/14263915.Sturgeon_appeals_to_Cameron_in_bid_to_unlock_fiscal_framework_talks/


And a quick recap from the comments on 'no detriment'.

What Sturgeon says is very simple. "No detriment", which the SNP, Conservatives, Labour, LibDems and Greens signed up to. Means that if the Scottish Government made absolutely no change to the tax structure, kept the same as the UK, then there should be absolutely no difference between the resulting Barnett, as there would be without the new powers. That is "no detriment". Everything else is a red herring.

The SNP's manifesto for May should be worth a look at least.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

I do still adore wee Eck ... and I know I'm not alone

Hey Shake still trying to educate people I see ... I imagine it's going the same way as it was last time I was here lol

Not long to go now, Swinney finally has fire in his belly and Sturgeon is thankfully not playing just as nice as she did before ... and wee Eck ... well he's doing what he does best ... seems to be smiling a lot just now as well

Would still love to see SNP with a Green opposition as I think that's the best ...

Was giggling like mad when the Tories took over Labour the other week ... the destruction of Labour gives me a lot of pleasure I must say

And the Orkney 4 yesterday was a very joyous celebration ...

Politics as always is such fun

Haha yes, passes some time in between real work and keeps the wits sharp.

Been a fast moving type of week with everything you've mentioned. Before that it was just Scottish journo's on twitter making sure none of them can ever call anyone a 'vile cybernat' ever again thanks to the Brian Spanner stuff. I expect they're going to have a serious ongoing problem with that and people taking them seriously in future.

Yes, such fun !

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

09/02/2016

For the avoidance of doubt, that's £3Bn over 10 years.

So the English will be paying you £87Bn instead of 90Bn.

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Haha yes, passes some time in between real work and keeps the wits sharp.

Been a fast moving type of week with everything you've mentioned. Before that it was just Scottish journo's on twitter making sure none of them can ever call anyone a 'vile cybernat' ever again thanks to the Brian Spanner stuff. I expect they're going to have a serious ongoing problem with that and people taking them seriously in future.

Yes, such fun !

Ahhh yes spanner gate .... that one has rumbled long and hard ... it's Adrossan don'tcha know

Hopefully it will shut up JK trolling for a bit . Well till her next book is due Atleast

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

For the avoidance of doubt, that's £3Bn over 10 years.

So the English will be paying you £87Bn instead of 90Bn.

You've missed the point. For the avoidance if doubt. Simply having these powers, used or not will cost the Scottish budget. I'm afraid that wasn't what was agreed. Nor indeed what was implied by a No vote after the Vow was made.

In my view, there is no ambiguity in what the Smith Commission meant by ‘no detriment’.

It means that if tax policy in Scotland remains the same as in the rest of the UK and if Scotland’s economic performance matches that of the rest of the UK, the Scottish budget should be no better or worse off – either at the point of devolution or in the future – than if current funding arrangements continued without further devolution.

Of course, if future Scottish governments decide to vary tax rates, or if our economic performance diverges from the rest of the UK, then the costs and benefits of these decisions and trends would fall on the Scottish budget. We accept that. But if nothing changes, then our budget shouldn’t change either, compared to what it would have been without the new powers.

That is what ‘no detriment’ means and it is the outcome that the Scottish government is seeking to achieve.

"I must make clear that the approach taken by the Treasury so far - which seems to focus, not on delivering 'no detriment' but instead on seeking agreement on the amount of detriment that Scotland should bear - is simply not acceptable to the Scottish government."

Nicola Sturgeon today.

And anyway. The 'English' ( or as I like to call the government, Westminster ) borrow the money on Scotland's behalf. They're spreading the debt not splashing the cash. It seems a No vote after all really did mean Tory cuts and Labour tax rises for Scotland. Salmond was right.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

Ahhh yes spanner gate .... that one has rumbled long and hard ... it's Adrossan don'tcha know

Hopefully it will shut up JK trolling for a bit . Well till her next book is due Atleast

I know. And they're all falling over themselves trying to justify having 'vile cybernats' plastered all over the papers.. but following and laughing along someone who uses the c word liberally about female politicians, as 'hilarious satire'. It's done for them anyway whoever 'he' is. Every column I've seen since from any that follow him has Spanner references underneath. No-one's taking them seriously anymore.

I see the Scotsman is up for sale also. Dire times all round for Scottish print.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You've missed the point. For the avoidance if doubt. Simply having these powers, used or not will cost the Scottish budget. I'm afraid that wasn't what was agreed. Nor indeed what was implied by a No vote after the Vow was made.

Nicola Sturgeon today.

And anyway. The 'English' ( or as I like to call the government, Westminster ) borrow the money on Scotland's behalf. They're spreading the debt not splashing the cash. It seems a No vote after all really did mean Tory cuts and Labour tax rises for Scotland. Salmond was right.

Spin, spin, and more spin. Your interpretation of the Vow is not necessarily correct.

Even if it is correct the English are still subsidising you to the tune of £87Bn over 10 years.

The SNP's time would be better spent working out how you'll survive after independence with minus £9Bn at the start of every year.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It seems a No vote after all really did mean Tory cuts and Labour tax rises for Scotland. Salmond was right.

And the SNP's policy. No comment. As they haven't a clue. Other than believing that money is pumped out of the ground.

Salmond was right to jump ship. Avoided having to face the unanswered questions he left behind. :rotfl:

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I know. And they're all falling over themselves trying to justify having 'vile cybernats' plastered all over the papers.. but following and laughing along someone who uses the c word liberally about female politicians, as 'hilarious satire'. It's done for them anyway whoever 'he' is. Every column I've seen since from any that follow him has Spanner references underneath. No-one's taking them seriously anymore.

I see the Scotsman is up for sale also. Dire times all round for Scottish print.

I saw the Scots man is up for sale .. it made me smile ... Tis the simple pleasures in life