Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

My thoughts too especially re tax credits. The living wage going up and tax credits cuts should've gone in tandem and increments over the course of the parliament.

There's been a fair bit of noise over how out of touch the media seem to have been over the whole thing. Osborne was given such a warm reception when he announced everything. From the BBC and all the newspapers. 'PM in waiting' etc etc.

Still, we're used to that here.

Surely most of the Scottish employers (both private and public) could implement the £9.00 minimum wage right now.

Why wouldn't they do that?

Scotland could show conclusively that high minimum wages don't cause unemployment but quite the opposite lead to a booming economy.

This would be a huge boost to the SNP, a wipe out of all opposition in May and an irresistible demand for a new referendum:
Independence by 2017.

Tromking

CLAPTON wrote: »

Surely most of the Scottish employers (both private and public) could implement the £9.00 minimum wage right now.

Why wouldn't they do that?

Scotland could show conclusively that high minimum wages don't cause unemployment but quite the opposite lead to a booming economy.

This would be a huge boost to the SNP, a wipe out of all opposition in May and an irresistible demand for a new referendum:
Independence by 2017.

That would require a modicum of political courage Clappers, when your entire doctrine is based on an imagined grievance against the English, then you're always going to find a way to drip about the injustice of it all whilst still tying yourself to the great satan you hate so much.

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Thank you for providing all those links above. Proving exactly why the SNP keep any dissent private. In short, it will be picked over, analysed, spun and will appear in every single newspaper, media outlet and Facebook 24/7 until the very last drop of 'oh look, the SNP are bad' is gained from it. And the SNP has this to deal with far more than any other political party in the UK today at the present time.

If all dissent/ debate is private then how do you know any takes place? Are you in the circle of trust?

If I was a party member I'd want to be able to influence policy rather than simply pay my subs and be required to turn up and clap at conference then disappear and argue in agreement of whatever I'd been told.

There's some sort of paranoia going on about everyone thinking the SNP is bad. South of the border my feeling is the SNP don't get that much coverage and, what there is, seems to be respectful and reasonably positive.

Must be a Twitter thing - are people still using it?

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Again Labour and the Conservatives had a single Scottish police force in their 2011 manifestos. As did the SNP. There was nothing 'not disclosed'. Labour and the Scottish Tories would've done the same.

How do you reach the 'not-disclosed' position? Only the Scottish Govt. (SNP) were aware of the VAT position as set out by HMRC which only came to light after Unison requested details under FoI. Even then the Scottish Govt. refused and the information was only released after appeal.

elantan

And the day of the Scottish Labour party conference kick off they produce a video of Kezia telling us she is the daughter of two teachers ... but she couldn't quite manage to spell #GENERTAION

Even Nicola got involved in that one


It's as if she's trying to mess up ... mawah ha ha ha ha ha

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

And the day of the Scottish Labour party conference kick off they produce a video of Kezia telling us she is the daughter of two teachers ... but she couldn't quite manage to spell #GENERTAION


It's as if she's trying to mess up ... mawah ha ha ha ha ha

It's extraordinary how the SNP is perfect in every way both small and large and that everyone else is pathetic.

Such a generous spirit it almost brings me to tears.

Shakethedisease

wotsthat wrote: »

If all dissent/ debate is private then how do you know any takes place? Are you in the circle of trust?

If I was a party member I'd want to be able to influence policy rather than simply pay my subs and be required to turn up and clap at conference then disappear and argue in agreement of whatever I'd been told.

There's some sort of paranoia going on about everyone thinking the SNP is bad. South of the border my feeling is the SNP don't get that much coverage and, what there is, seems to be respectful and reasonably positive.

Must be a Twitter thing - are people still using it?

Ah no. I was pointing that even when there is no publicly aired dissent that the SNP get headlines anyway. For the mere fact that there is no dissent in the ranks. It's verging on the bizarre... even just looking at the 'tone' of the headlines. Divided parties are parties which rarely do well in elections or as opposition. At the very least you know what you're getting with the SNP. The same can be said more or less for the Tories as well.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/snp-accused-of-gagging-own-mps-like-stalin-1-3732693

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13207900.SNP_clampdown_on_MPs_who_fail_to_toe_the_ party_line/

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/leaked-snp-plan-gag-nationalist-5260840

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/snp-conference-2015-live-blog

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/582/snp-member-accuses-party-of-stalinism-over-new-proposals-to-restrict-mps-right-to-criticise-the-party-at-westminster

Policy is decided and voted in at conference by delegates from each branch. Imo there is little impetus to rock boats and veer away from established policies, precisely because things are going well enough at the moment.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

How do you reach the 'not-disclosed' position? Only the Scottish Govt. (SNP) were aware of the VAT position as set out by HMRC which only came to light after Unison requested details under FoI. Even then the Scottish Govt. refused and the information was only released after appeal.

101 MSP's voted the act into place, not just the SNP. It was pushed through very quickly due to the savings even with the VAT added on top.. it is a measure which saved the Scottish Govt money to spend elsewhere ( at a time of cuts, is a good thing surely ? ).. Unison were worried about potential job losses.

However, you've still failed to explain why Westminster MP's should vote against VAT exemption now as things stand ? Apart from 'well they should've known'. They did, all MSP's did. There was no secrecy there..but it was voted through because it saved money even so by pushing it through quickly.. The Scottish Govt are now looking for exemption. Have been for a while now actually. Any idea why it's taking so long or why MP's would vote against exempting the Scottish Police Force and Fire Services from VAT just three days ago ?

27 June 2012

Legislation to create single police and fire services has passed the final hurdle at the Scottish Parliament. The Police and Fire Reform Bill sets out plans for Scotland's eight regional police and fire services merge into respective single units by April.

The vote passed 101 votes to six, with 14 abstentions.

....Questions remain over whether the services are liable for a £30m tax bill. The Treasury has yet to formally notify the Scottish Government whether they will waive a VAT bill incurred through centralisation. The Scottish Government has said it understands that the answer will be no and has accounted for VAT in its financial projections.

http://news.stv.tv/politics/108267-new-single-police-force-and-single-fire-service-to-be-created/

wotsthat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Ah no. I was pointing that even when there is no publicly aired dissent that the SNP get headlines anyway. For the mere fact that there is no dissent in the ranks. It's verging on the bizarre... even just looking at the 'tone' of the headlines. Divided parties are parties which rarely do well in elections or as opposition. At the very least you know what you're getting with the SNP. The same can be said more or less for the Tories as well.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/snp-accused-of-gagging-own-mps-like-stalin-1-3732693

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13207900.SNP_clampdown_on_MPs_who_fail_to_toe_the_ party_line/

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/leaked-snp-plan-gag-nationalist-5260840

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/snp-conference-2015-live-blog

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/582/snp-member-accuses-party-of-stalinism-over-new-proposals-to-restrict-mps-right-to-criticise-the-party-at-westminster

Policy is decided and voted in at conference by delegates from each branch. Imo there is little impetus to rock boats and veer away from established policies, precisely because things are going well enough at the moment.

You've gone from saying any dissent is in private to there isn't any dissent because things are going swimmingly. I'd say dissent on currently is on the low side and what there is is stamped out immediately.

I haven't clicked through to the links but, judging by the headlines, other people are suggesting the SNP have suppressed dissent by gagging it. Of course the time for the leadership to get this through is when they're on their uppers when dissent might well be on the low side. Not a great policy when the wind changes though unless your views are protected inside the circle of trust.

No, divided parties are rarely vote winners - can't see why it matters unless one supports a political party like a football team.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Trident.