Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

kabayiri

princeofpounds wrote: »

...

It would probably also be a much more enterprising and right wing society, shedding some of the statist fug that has surrounded it since the UK deindustrialised.
...

I think this could be true as well. Having a dynamic neighbour on our doorstep would provide a kick up the pants to keep rUK on its' toes.

However, when the separatist party is proclaiming a lot of socialist policy, a right of centre state must seem a long way away.

Mistermeaner

How would scotland suddenly go from a wingey needy chip on the shoulder socialist state to becoming more enterprising?

kabayiri

Mistermeaner wrote: »

How would scotland suddenly go from a wingey needy chip on the shoulder socialist state to becoming more enterprising?

You have to first remove opaque subsidy mechanisms which everyone seems to deride.

Barnett.

Make it completely transparent what the block transfer is from Westminster every year to plug the Scottish gap in it's accounts.

Once people get over the initial shock of the sheer amount, they will inevitably ask the question "how can we close this gap?", and therein lies the smaller state / leaner economy solution.

princeofpounds

To clarify, I mean that the markets would probably wear borrowing at that sort of level for a few years. Clearly, borrowing can't be higher than GDP growth for long as otherwise you lose your ability to service the debt. That's just maths.

Wasn't criticising your assumption at all, was just highlighting that you were actually being quite generous in your assessment.

How would scotland suddenly go from a wingey needy chip on the shoulder socialist state to becoming more enterprising?

Follow the money basically.


There would simply be less public money to go around, but more enterprise opportunities would open up in areas like import substitution and export industries.


Plus the SNP would probably be seen as having presided over an economic disaster, but I make the point in the general sense rather than specific to Scotland.

Generali

princeofpounds wrote: »

Wasn't criticising your assumption at all, was just highlighting that you were actually being quite generous in your assessment.





Follow the money basically.


There would simply be less public money to go around, but more enterprise opportunities would open up in areas like import substitution and export industries.


Plus the SNP would probably be seen as having presided over an economic disaster, but I make the point in the general sense rather than specific to Scotland.

I didn't think that you were criticising but thanks for clarifying.

With oil at current prices, Scottish independence doesn't stack up economically. Really it would be cutting off the Union to spite themselves.

Shakethedisease

If Scotland goes, it will be a few years yet...

All the rest are better arguments. But none are insurmountable. Consider this: qualifying is underway for the 2016 football European Championships. In the early 1990s, there were 34 nations in UEFA, the governing body, competing to take part. Now there are 53. Yugoslavia was once one country, now it is seven (if we recognise Kosovo). Many more have sprung from the former Soviet Union. And, by and large, these newly emerged nations have done fine; Slovenia, Croatia, Estonia and others have all had their periods of difficulty and upheaval but can today be seen as successful sovereign states.Maps change and so does sovereignty, and the world doesn’t come to an end....

.. But if it happens, economies and investment patterns will adjust as they always have done. Deutsche is right that there are greater challenges facing the Scottish economy under independence than most people there have probably understood. But the idea of national pride is a powerful one, and some people are prepared to compromise a great deal to achieve it..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2014/09/15/if-scotland-goes-a-mistake-as-big-as-the-great-depression/

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If Scotland goes, it will be a few years yet...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2014/09/15/if-scotland-goes-a-mistake-as-big-as-the-great-depression/

unbelievable that anyone could write such revolting rubbish

only a true scot with a huge chip on the shoulder, could compare scotland (with £3,000 per family more than the English) with countries who suffers 50 years of communist oppression.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

.......And, by and large, these newly emerged nations have done fine; Slovenia, Croatia, Estonia and others have all had their periods of difficulty and upheaval but can today be seen as successful sovereign states.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswright/2014/09/15/if-scotland-goes-a-mistake-as-big-as-the-great-depression/

Successful indeed. Entrepreneurial too.
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I can vouch for the fact they do a great job washing my car.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

unbelievable that anyone could write such revolting rubbish

only a true scot with a huge chip on the shoulder, could compare scotland (with £3,000 per family more than the English) with countries who suffers 50 years of communist oppression.

Oh. Ok.... ( you didn't read it did you ).

I'm the former editor of Asiamoney magazine in Hong Kong, and former investment editor of the Australian Financial Review newspaper in Sydney, Australia. I live in London but have spent most of my professional life in Asia Pacific. Aside from Forbes, I write for the Financial Times, Euromoney, Institutional Investor, Euroweek and many other business and finance publications. I've won several industry awards, most recently the Citi journalism award for excellence for personal finance in 2013, my third Citi award in three years.Outside of business and finance, I'm a regular feature writer for publications including Discovery Channel Magazine and The Australian Way.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Successful indeed. Entrepreneurial too.
.
I can vouch for the fact they do a great job washing my car.

I don't think you did either.

One, the example of other sovereign states breaking away from a union. Deutsche uses the analogy of peripheral eurozone states that looked to be on the brink of leaving. “Each of these countries from Ireland to Portugal to Spain has suffered recessions, higher taxes, lower public spending and higher interest rates. While it may sound simple and costless for a nation to exit a 300-year old union, nothing could be further from the truth.”...

...Some of Deutsche’s arguments are better than others. The first is, in my view, the worst; Portugal, Ireland and Spain didn’t run in to trouble because it looked like they might leave the EU. Part of the reason they got into trouble was because of being in the EU in the first place, losing the independence to set monetary policy to suit their own economies...