Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

elantan

ruggedtoast wrote: »

It would help if the Nats could at least agree among themselves why England wants to oppress them. Oil, general nastiness, lack of oil, potential oil, etc.

there you go making it about Scotland v's England again, dont you ever get sick of all your rubbish?

Generali

elantan wrote: »

there you go making it about Scotland v's England again, dont you ever get sick of all your rubbish?

The assumption, rightly or wrongly, amongst the English is that the SNP and their supporters harbour a racist hatred towards the English.

I've never seen any evidence to the contrary.

elantan

you aint looking in the right places then,

Generali

elantan wrote: »

you aint looking in the right places then,

Maybe.

Perhaps I'm just right.

elantan

Well that would depend on what you actually think you are right about

If its the SNP hating England, then you are so far from right it ain't even a tiny speck on the horizon, but if its something along the lines of the sun coming up tomorrow then I would agree

mystic_trev

skintmacflint

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The us and them rhetoric comes ringing through. Make politics decisive it will become so.

To be honest for decades in Scotland , the Labour Party stoked the flames of fear and threats of what would happen in Scotland if the Conservatives were ever returned to power. Was fed to kids with their cereal every morning. So the bad Tories were made near extinct up here.

Then SNP came along and not only ramped up a gear in the divisiveness and resentment rhetoric, but succeeded in turning voters against Labour as well. Even with Labour on its knees, SNP keep at them, they don't want any other party to gain sufficient power to be an effective opposition to them.

What was once a fringe party of protest of colourful characters for Independence only , has changed over the years , now calling itself social democrats. Power and influence once gained is difficult to let go, and it's been very rewarding for SNP members family and friends financially.

Many Scots have the opinion of being somehow different to our neighbours in outlook in many ways. Some kid themselves they're socially more caring or just., kind and all this rubbish. But we're not, we're very similar , with the exception that many don't have the natural self confidence of many English. I tend to think it's due to being reared carrying the weight of a huge chip on our shoulders.

Or maybe it's due to the Buckfast.

skintmacflint

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's not that interesting to be honest. I just wasn't very interested in politics. Moving about a lot with husband in armed forces, working and looking after my young children meant I didn't have a great deal of time for it. I didn't vote at all in many elections ( was barely worth registering before we moved again ).
I got caught up with Clegg-mania in 2010 I think. And it's only now looking back, I can see just how very 'media driven' my views were. And I didn't give the SNP a second thought back then... because they never appeared in the media ( while I lived in England), or any leaders debates.

It was the 2011 Scottish elections that really sparked my interest. I had been disappointed by the Lib Dems in coalition. I voted SNP. And then all the debate started raging about the referendum/would it be held/would devo max be on the ballot/what the date would be etc etc. I took part here in a few threads as an 'undecided' and as someone who favoured much more in the way of further powers to the Scottish government, rather than full independence.

Over time, I gradually changed my views. And once devo-max was taken off the ballot paper. After a period of refection, and reading everything I could find on the pertinent issues surrounding the debate, ( including several heated ones on this forum ). I decided that on balance and weighing things up. I would be voting Yes.

I joined the SNP as a member a few days after the No vote. I have no regrets. And I would vote Yes again, given the opportunity. It was a gradual journey. And one I think, is quite common to a lot of Scots voters over the last few years. We remain politically engaged, and much, much more aware of media and possible agenda's designed to sway opinion.

Far from being 'deluded' and 'manipulated' into voting SNP. I'd say, that exactly the opposite is a much truer reflection with many Scots these days. Certainly compared to 2010... and my pretty much completely uninformed, 'feel good' vote. Driven by watching a few hours of some man on the telly who 'sounded nice'. .

Not thrown out. Just encouraged to have another referendum.

I think re taxes, the same is true of the UK as a whole. The UK borrows to cover it's shortfall.

Apologies for delay in replying, been offline. Elderly dog took I'll suddenly and despite 24 hour care we lost him.

Your reply was interesting and perhaps is the same journey some have taken, but it's not the same as any other new SNP voter I know.
Nor many others I've spoken to who are of the same opinion as myself.

The ones I know we're all persuaded either by SNP activists or new converts in work bending their ears at very tea break or lunch time, some even going as far as inviting speakers in if policy allowed.

Others were persuaded by friends to attend an SNP public meeting, where in a nutshell Labour etc were bad and SNP and Independence were great. If that didn't work, their friends persuaded them to attend a meeting with a different speaker, eg Business for Scotland ( who to my mind are not what they purport to be), or to attend an outside Yes gathering/March with feel good factor and family activities.

Some were referred to Wings over Crap for the 'truth' or given The Wee Blue Book, an abbreviated version of the discredited White Paper to read to allay fears. once they were persuaded they were then encouraged to get their friends to do the same and so on.My newly converted friend even tried it with me..

What I find incredible is how being part of this SNP 'family' just now is like being in a cool and fashionable cult. People posted with pride that they've just attended an SNP conference or event where Sturgeon or Salmond spoke. To hear the same old rhetoric and vague dogma, over and over again.

Yet ask them to donate a couple of hours every so often for a reputable and deserving local charity and they were too busy or tied up distributing leaflets.

Re Scotland being encouraged to leave the Union when the oil runs out, to me gives the impression you don't place enough value on what this peaceful and successful Union has achieved over the years.

Leaving aside the sharing and historic infighting of small clans etc, Scotland is a strategic area for the defence of this Union. Unlike Salmond who listened to tales of Scottish history and grievances , born during the war, I grew up hearing tales of small countries who declared themselves neutral during World War 2 , but were invaded and occupied anyway if of strategic value. And what happened during those occupations.

While you might think these days are long gone, the future is not known. And while it might not be a good enough reason to stay overall in a Union in your opinion, it's a good enough reason for any UK party of any sense and responsibility to want Scotland to remain in the Union IMO.

Generali

It appears that the economic case for FFA or independence for Scotland is becoming ever more risible:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11768136/Saudi-Arabia-may-go-broke-before-the-US-oil-industry-buckles.html

Vote independence, vote poverty.

Shakethedisease

This one is more reflective I feel.