Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

kabayiri

Sturgeon makes a good point about the EU independence referendum.

Scotland should be allowed to stay in the EU if it votes for this, and the rest of the UK votes to leave.

Using the same logic, should Aberdeenshire and Shetlands etc vote No to independence, but central Scotland vote Yes, then they should be allowed to remain in the Union, with whatever assets they might have.

This way Shakey and co get rid of Westminster and Hamish gets his wishes.

Everyone's a winner

Froggitt

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

It has to do with where the revenue is received and the expenditure is spent.

Many are complaining about the Barnett Formula, but if it balances, or potentially is insufficient to balance the proportionate spend in relation to the revenues created, then it is an important factor to consider

Hypothetical Question. Say the worst 100 roads to be resurfaced are all in England. Should they be resurfaced, or should we pick 90 of them, plus 10 Scottish roads (which in reality are all OK) to be resurfaced?

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
However, it seems the economic case was 'flexible' and the facts were not quite 'indisputable' enough ... Because all three leaders went on to offer further powers in order to ensure the vote returned a No. If those facts had indeed been 'indisputable', then nothing further would've been offered. Especially in terms of financial levers for Scotland in terms of raising it's own taxes etc. One of the things that was a big 'can never be done/red line' until about a week before the vote....

Time, and the Tories in power for the next 5 years will do the rest I daresay.

You really have a penchant for re-writing facts into SNP Spin.

Around the March/April time at the latest, there was a lot of proposals being mulled for further Scottish Devolution, I remember the Tories suggesting that income tax was one thing that could be devolved and the LibDems were also pretty ambitious (too ambitious I must say but scant recognition did they get in Scotland for that, not that I care). What you write is simply not true, repeat not true; those extra powers were in the pipeline well before September.

Regarding your remark on the Tories - I think you are in for a surprise on action and reaction.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You really have a penchant for re-writing facts into SNP Spin.

Around the March/April time at the latest, there was a lot of proposals being mulled for further Scottish Devolution, I remember the Tories suggesting that income tax was one thing that could be devolved and the LibDems were also pretty ambitious (too ambitious I must say but scant recognition did they get in Scotland for that, not that I care). What you write is simply not true, repeat not true; those extra powers were in the pipeline well before September.

Regarding your remark on the Tories - I think you are in for a surprise on action and reaction.

Yes there were further powers being 'mulled over'. But they were pretty much crap ones. Scottish Labour were offering something like being able to slightly raise tax, but never being able to lower it anything past the rUK level. And everything was pretty much of a mish/mash, mabye, mabye not, this party offers this, but the other party opposes that but will offer this. No cohesion whatsoever until the 'Vow' was offered.

As for the Tories, well do tell us your thoughts ! Or mabye you're you just trying to sound a bit like you know more than anyone else does. I guess the rest of us mere mortals will have to just wait and see.

ps Do feel free to donate. I think Carmichael may be about to be served with an election petition. I'm not sure I agree with the whole thing, however.. it is what it is and seems there are a lot of people that think he should've resigned.

£18,246 GBP
raised by 1,124 people in 21 hours

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/story

zagubov

CLAPTON wrote: »

perhaps we could learn from scotland ?

how are they moving away from a central belt centric economy?

How much of Switzerland's economy is dominated by its central plateau?

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

How much of Switzerland's economy is dominated by its central plateau?

what's switzerland got to do with the price of chocolate?

but it may be worthy of discussion, whether reducing the center may harm the whole chocolate

but no SNP acolyte could apply that logic to the hated English even if they would apply the logic to the remote places of Scotland or Switzerland

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes there were further powers being 'mulled over'. But they were pretty much crap ones. Scottish Labour were offering something like being able to slightly raise tax, but never being able to lower it anything past the rUK level. And everything was pretty much of a mish/mash, mabye, mabye not, this party offers this, but the other party opposes that but will offer this. No cohesion whatsoever until the 'Vow' was offered.

Shakey, just for once, just admit you posted something which was not correct.

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And that 55% will disappear, as it already seems to be. As the same pound/EU arguments cannot be re-run either.
Time, and the Tories in power for the next 5 years will do the rest I daresay.

You`re there on the ground so I`m loathed to disagree with you, but despite everything I've just got this niggling doubt that the vote will never ever go the way you hope it will.
Clearly the UK establishment feels the tactic of giving the Scots everything (or as near as damn it!) they want short of independence will be enough to stave off the leap of faith required to vote YES and the SNP feels that incremental autonomy will make the final step to independence almost inevitable.
Interesting times ahead whichever way it goes.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Shakey, just for once, just admit you posted something which was not correct.

Point me out which bit isn't correct and I'll be happy to correct it. There was no cohesion between the three parties over what further powers should be offered to Scotland in the event of a No vote.. until a week before the ref vote.

I'm afraid the heads of the 'branch offices' ie absolutely NO power whatsoever to offer anything, without the say so of their main UK counterparts ( as Jim Murphy found out to his cost later on )... 'mulling things over' doesn't really count as a concrete offer.

Anyway, what was that you were saying about the Queens speech and your own special insider knowledge ? Any thoughts on sharing them ?

Shakethedisease

Tromking wrote: »

You`re there on the ground so I`m loathed to disagree with you, but despite everything I've just got this niggling doubt that the vote will never ever go the way you hope it will.
Clearly the UK establishment feels the tactic of giving the Scots everything (or as near as damn it!) they want short of independence will be enough to stave off the leap of faith required to vote YES and the SNP feels that incremental autonomy will make the final step to independence almost inevitable.
Interesting times ahead whichever way it goes.

Imo there won't be another independence referendum held until support is in the high/mid 50's low 60 's % of polling support. It would be absolutely suicidal to hold one only to lose it again. Wouldn't you say ? That may be months away, or more likely, years away. However, the SNP will most likely have to mandate for one in their 2016 manifesto with caveats. Because if events/public opinion change within a very short space of time ( Human rights scrapped, EU ref or Trident renewal as examples ).. they'll have to have the mandate there in place, to move very quickly and call it.

On the 'other side' most of us feel the tactic of 'giving the Scots everything' ( as you put it, not me ).. to stave off a leap of faith.. will work in the opposite direction. And will ensure that any leap of faith, isn't such a big one as last time and result in a Yes vote. You are correct in that.

Also, Tories and Scotland haven't mixed very well for decades. Even those die hard Labour voters, may be open to persuasion that independence might be a better option.. to an alternative of another possible 10 years of the Tories ( if Labour don't pick themselves up again ). A fair number of No voters voted assuming a Labour govt would be in place by now. The polling back then was relatively favourable.. since everyone was still counting on Labour holding on to their 41 Scottish seats no problem. It's a drastically different picture now.

But no-one can predict future. And the SNP's star will only shine for so long.