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Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

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  • Froggitt
    Froggitt Posts: 5,904 Forumite
    Even the flagship Olympic Stadium has been virtually demolished and rebuilt in order to turn it into a football stadium.
    illegitimi non carborundum
  • zagubov
    zagubov Posts: 17,938 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Surely even Scotland realise that there is no way they would be allowed to join the EU as they are. They could not "stay" in it, they would be forced to reapply, and member states have a veto. Someone like Spain with separatists within their own country would not want it to seem easy for a breakaway country to rejoin.

    What I can't understand is why Scotland wants to become independent but then in the same breath rejoin a monstrosity like the eu and have to take on the Euro (which they would be forced to take) and everything that goes with it. They would be subsumed into the mass.
    On the contrary in the unlikely event that Scotland left and didn't enter the EU but joined EFTA instead, they'd regain control of their fisheries. It would probably enourage Spain's northern territories with their fishing fleets to push harder for independence to join Scotland in EFTA.

    Assuming that Spain's economy doesn't take a nosedive anyway.
    There is no honour to be had in not knowing a thing that can be known - Danny Baker
  • IveSeenTheLight
    IveSeenTheLight Posts: 13,322 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »
    The last thing that Birmingham and Manchester need ...........a public transport system that has a capacity 10x the city's needs.

    See, this is where I believe a short sighted view comes from.

    Earlier, you highlighted how London people movement within the city has grown to surpass the movements during the Olympics, hence building the infrastructure enables the city to expand more.

    If this was developed elsewhere in the country i.e. Manchester or Birmingham in this example, then it could encourage the population to reside in these areas, helping them to grow and potentially helping ease the congestion and population growth in London itself.

    I recall reading how the UK motorways was never expected to have the volume of traffic on it and there are surveys that have shown a correlation to improving infrastructure increases the volume.

    When I lived in Malaysia, they built a whole new town (called Putrajaya ) and infrastructure to relocate the government as a result of overcrowding and congestion.

    It's similar outside of the box thoughts we should be considering.
    :wall:
    What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
    Some men you just can't reach.
    :wall:
  • Tromking
    Tromking Posts: 2,691 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Who's changing?
    Clapton compared the West Midlands with Scotland.
    I responded and then expanded to capture all of the regions.

    Why do you want to move the goalposts? Is it because you don;t like the statistical facts?

    One benefit of looking at the regional differences is that it highlights how London Centric and reliant the whole of the UK is, which is back to my point in how can this not be dispersed better throughout the WHOLE of the UK

    I accused Scotland of receiving a bung from England, your response to that was to try and justify that bung (I assume?) by saying that Scotland was the third highest 'payer in'. All very interesting, but how does that justify the 'kick back' the Scots receive and why, if they`re the biggest contributors doesn't London and the South-East get a similar subsidy from the UK treasury, if that is indeed your justification.
    “Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧
  • IveSeenTheLight
    IveSeenTheLight Posts: 13,322 Forumite
    Tromking wrote: »
    I accused Scotland of receiving a bung from England, your response to that was to try and justify that bung (I assume?) by saying that Scotland was the third highest 'payer in'. All very interesting, but how does that justify the 'kick back' the Scots receive and why, if they`re the biggest contributors doesn't London and the South-East get a similar subsidy from the UK treasury, if that is indeed your justification.

    I'm asking for full, clear transparent accountancy of where the revenues come from and where they are spent.
    What is the "unidentified public spending"? and where is it spent?
    :wall:
    What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
    Some men you just can't reach.
    :wall:
  • Shakethedisease
    Shakethedisease Posts: 7,006 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    Hope you're feeling better for having got all of that pent up anger out your system.

    Oh did it come across that way ? I do apologise. I had two/three windows open and was typing a replies on a completely unrelated subject in my own forum at the same time, so was distracted more than anything else.

    But it's all true nonetheless. :) England should have a devolved budget allocated like the other three countries. Not least because it will make the passage of EVEL ( which I support 100% as long as it has no knock on effects and its truly English only ) much easier and far less problematic.

    It would also allow England to pay for HS2 and for the other nations to use the billions in contributions towards it, to go towards their own infrastructure and improvements instead. Things that will actually benefit them.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • Shakethedisease
    Shakethedisease Posts: 7,006 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    Generali wrote: »
    The London subsidy helped pay for the A9. Should that start in Finchley?

    The SNP aren't being disregarded. Like the SDP before, they are the third largest party and will get a position on every select committee and a chairmanship or two (think it's two, can't remember).

    They're certainly not going to get to write the budget or decide defence spending! The Government does that and the SNP aren't in Government. They thought they were going to be but unfortunately Labour were too far right to be electable in Scotland and too far left to be electable in England. Winning Scotland in a UK election is like winning the UK in a Euro election or winning Hackney in the London mayoral race: it's nice to do but doesn't win you the big prize.

    Just as well the 'big prize' isn't Westminster then. It's leaving it. :cool:
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • IveSeenTheLight
    IveSeenTheLight Posts: 13,322 Forumite
    Tromking wrote: »
    All very interesting, but how does that justify the 'kick back' the Scots receive and why, if they`re the biggest contributors doesn't London and the South-East get a similar subsidy from the UK treasury, if that is indeed your justification.

    Who's to say London and the south East are not already getting that subsidy?

    From Claptons article: -
    We derived that Scotland gets back just under 50% from the revenue's generated.
    West Midlands was the same, just under 50%.

    It would be great to see what the expenditure was (per head) for London and the South East and compare against its revenue (per head).

    I'd still be interested to also understand this "unidentified public spending" which does not seem to be captured in the revenue and expenditure per head stats.
    :wall:
    What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
    Some men you just can't reach.
    :wall:
  • Shakethedisease
    Shakethedisease Posts: 7,006 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    .string. wrote: »
    Shaker has stated the she herself does not feel strongly one way or the other on Trident. But when in the grip of a frothy SNP outburst it must be very difficult to express your own opinions as an individual; far easier to let the Whinge Machine take over and the brain into neutral.

    You might do better to address the content, rather than your own personal feelings of my state of mind. My own personal feelings on Trident are neither here nor there, I was simply pointing out the truth that 56 Scottish MP's, perhaps 57/58 of 59 MP's will vote against it's renewal. If you can point me out where I am wrong in this I'd be much obliged.

    They will vote against Trident renewal. And it will be renewed regardless. Has your definition of 'truth' now changed to 'whinge' instead perhaps ? Strange... ;)
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
  • Shakethedisease
    Shakethedisease Posts: 7,006 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic
    I'd still be interested to also understand this "unidentified public spending" which does not seem to be captured in the revenue and expenditure per head stats.

    I think there are quite a lot of us would be interested in that. And how the figures are come up with in the first place... since it seems they can't be indentified ? Doesn't make sense.
    It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
    But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?
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