Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Castle

Froggitt wrote: »

I can see that happening as well. Right by the Birmingham Interchange Station of HS2, by the NEC, the M6, the M42, Birmingham Airport, and the West Coast Main Line. And it is less than one mile from Meriden, the "centre of England".

Good idea, maybe they could set up some temporary seating in one of the NEC Buildings, and use the onsite hotel as MPs accommodation; so no travel claims necessary. Save a fortune!

.string.

Castle wrote: »

Scottish MPs at Westminster won't have a say on Scottish Income tax either, it will be decided by MSPs in Edinburgh.

If Mr Cameron wants "English votes for English Issues" then he needs an English Parliament not Westminster.

I'm English I suppose, but don't want an English Parliament with all the expense and strife involved. Such things are for those of the vaingloriously tribal persuasion.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

The British system isn't to be united behind a single party.
Instead its about a party in power being held to account by an able opposition, offering an alternative vision.

Britain was ruled by a National Government for most of the 1930s & 40s. Why not again?

I would argue that the UK is at a point of existentialist crisis.

CLAPTON

.string. wrote: »

I'm English I suppose, but don't want an English Parliament with all the expense and strife involved. Such things are for those of the vaingloriously tribal persuasion.

yes indeed,

there is no reason why the time at Westmister shouldn't be split between 'devolved matters' and UK wide matters

Under devolved matters on the appropriate MPs could participate and vote on their own issues.

then we could get rid of Holyrood, Stormont and the Welsh assembly and save a significant amount of money.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Britain was ruled by a National Government for most of the 1930s & 40s. Why not again?

I would argue that the UK is at a point of existentialist crisis.

Because if there was a Labour/Tory National government made up of rUK MP's and nothing much in the way of Labour/Tory MP's in Scotland.. trying to pass laws which affect Scotland ? Can't see that ending well for the Union.. very well for the SNP perhaps, but not so good for folks like Hamish.

Plus there would be no effective opposition either. 30-40 SNP MP's out of 650 is hardly an existentialist crisis. Cameron however, is trying to blow it up into one. How long would this National Government run for then ?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I'm English I suppose, but don't want an English Parliament with all the expense and strife involved. Such things are for those of the vaingloriously tribal persuasion.

Well if you want things to be on a completely equal footing to Scotland, Wales and NI.. a devolved parliament based on a PR system is the only way to go. EVEL will be a complete mess if it ever goes through. Though the principle is sound enough.

In theory however, it will most probably mean a natural Tory MP English only majority in Westminster, will be able to pass whatever tax laws/cuts they like.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Well if you want things to be on a completely equal footing to Scotland, Wales and NI.. a devolved parliament based on a PR system is the only way to go. EVEL will be a complete mess if it ever goes through. Though the principle is sound enough.

In theory however, it will most probably mean a natural Tory MP English only majority in Westminster, will be able to pass whatever tax laws/cuts they like.

so single party rule in both england and scotland

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

so single party rule in both england and scotland

No, you'd have the two largest parties in power in England with about 550 seats between them, in order to keep the majority party in Scotland and about 40 MP's out of power in Westminster. In a Grand coalition. Or with EVEL, if Tories get the biggest no of seats. Tory rule in terms of English laws.

There wouldn't be much point in sending Scottish MP's being part of Westminster anymore ( which obviously won't be bad news to me ). Since it seems they would obviously have to be Labour/Tory or Lib Dem in order to be 'allowed' to participate on behalf of their constituents. Which isn't really very democratic.

I'm unsure why you think it's single party 'rule' in Scotland. At the moment there are 41 Scottish Labour MP's that represent Scotland and 6 SNP ones. Looks like they will swap round a bit... but I didn't hear anyone complaining of single party rule for the last 5 years.. or indeed decades before that either, even when Labour was dominant in both Holyrood and Westminster in terms of MPs/MSP's returned.

What's your problem suddenly now ?

Vince Cable has just 'floated' the idea of a Grand coalition on Channel 4. Oh dear...

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Because if there was a Labour/Tory National government made up of rUK MP's and nothing much in the way of Labour/Tory MP's in Scotland.. trying to pass laws which affect Scotland ? Can't see that ending well for the Union.. very well for the SNP perhaps, but not so good for folks like Hamish.

...

If LibDems and Tory are able to form a coallition then it is reasonable to assume that applies to any combination of parties.

They can pass laws affecting any region, be it Yorkshire, NW, Midlands or Scotland. It's kind of what we pay them for!

There isn't some kind of tabooed combination..

(oh, and Hamish will be fine whatever!)

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

If LibDems and Tory are able to form a coallition then it is reasonable to assume that applies to any combination of parties.

They can pass laws affecting any region, be it Yorkshire, NW, Midlands or Scotland. It's kind of what we pay them for!

You're mistaking my pointing out the numbers for personal opinion re government formation. Conservatives/Lib Dem/UKIP/DUP on one side Labour/SNP/Greens/Plaid and possible Lib Dem on the other. Lib Dems have said both that they won't work with the SNP or UKIP. But that depends on if Clegg saves his seat or not, or even remains leader if half his MP's are gone.

However in terms of my own opinion.. I'm afraid David Cameron can't go round saying things like he has been, and having the right wing press whipping things up further.. about England being 'held to ransom' or 'coups' happening if SNP MP's get into power in Westminster in numbers. Then expect the Scots electorate to meekly sit back an accept what it gets from any Tory/Labour grand coalition ( even informal). It's verging into Banana republic politics.

There isn't some kind of tabooed combination..

Good, then you'll be among those who will welcome the SNP MP's supporting a Labour minority government then ? Glad to hear it.

(oh, and Hamish will be fine whatever!)

He won't like that fiscal black hole of his if Scotland goes though will he. Which would be a running certainty ( if it isn't already ) if democratically elected SNP MP's are pushed out or ignored at Westminster through either a grand coalition, or no party willing to work with them. Are you his self-appointed mouthpiece here when he's not online btw ?

But it misses the shift now taking place. If the predicted landslide comes, this will no longer be about the SNP. This will be about Scots and Scotland.
If the electoral map turns yellow on 7 May, then to ostracise the SNP will be to ostracise the Scottish nation that – under our first-past-the-post system – will have given that party an overwhelming mandate. To say Sturgeon’s party cannot be a legitimate partner in the governance of the UK will be to say that the Scots are not a legitimate partner in the governance of the UK. And that will be the end of the union.
It’s a paradox. The unionist parties will have to work with those who don’t believe in the union. But to do otherwise will be to pronounce the union dead.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/24/scotland-britain-separatists-paradox-unionist-parties-snp-union-dead

Looks like the Tories and leaders of the Lib Dems have made up their minds on that one above. Labour is still hoping for a last minute reprieve MP wise ( which is still very possible ) in Scotland first before the party jumps one way or the other.