Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Shakey - I think you've spent too much time swooning over Salmond's anti-Westminster (aka anti-English) rants if you think he's going to be the smartest strategist in Parliament. He does have a talent for paying of fantasies as facts, I'll give him that, but such things don't wash any more after so many "SNP Facts" have been shown up for what they were.

Re the status of SNP MPs in Parliament, Of course all MPs should have the right to vote in Parliament, and of course this applies to the SNP. Whatever gave you the notion that anyone here thinks they do not they do not? They will get their vote like everybody else.

But equally MPs, and parties, have the right to ally with/not ally with any party with which they do not agree. There is nothing undemocratic in that. So don't expect the SNP to get any special favours, especially if (I mean when) their parochial and disruptive "Amendments" start flowing in and they are seen as the wreckers they aspire to be.

Take the new Devolution Bill for example. Whichever party eventually forms the next Government, be it minority or majority, will no doubt take care to get as much consensus as possible with the other major party so that it will pass the commons vote.

Should they discuss it with Scottish Representatives? Well of course, but that is not as simple as you might hope. There are different options - at least.

o. Declare that it has already been discussed and the results were the Smith recommendations
o. Continue the intent and wording of the "Vow" and reconvene those discussions with all parties in Scotland, not just the SNP
o. Discuss it with and only with the SNP MPs

And if the SNP don't like that? Tough - it's take it or leave it time.

As for other Bills you can expect much the same where pre-cooking is possible. Personally I would call SNP's bluff early on in the Parliament in a vote on a decision against SNP policy but attractive to many Scots. Salami tactics.

You have completely failed to grasp how a minority government works and gets votes and legislation through. So am not even going to bother correcting you on any of the above. Salmond knows far more than you I'm afraid, that's for sure. Sorry.

But you're are right, the SNP will get their vote like everyone else. I think that's what all the panic is about isn't it ? 'Holding to ransom' and 'coups'.. Why would David Cameron be saying things like that then if he didn't mean them ? Surely he's not just whipping up anti-SNP/Scots feeling as an ugly campaign tactic. How awful if so...

Leanne1812

Good grief!!!

What a lot of ranting over sending scots MP's to Westminster who have been democratically elected.

Seriously, have you any idea quite how desperate you are all beginning to sound?

If we vote a majority of SNP to westminster then so be it. We are part of the Union and will choose our representatives just the same as everyone else.

Please stay Scotland but just be quiet and do as you're told. That is exactly what is being said here. Is it any wonder people are turning to SNP in their droves?

If ever it was clear it's an unequal Union it is right now.

Yes Clapton, I'm fully expecting you to respond with just how unequal it is for Yorkshire......zzzzzz

[Deleted User]

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Good grief!!!

What a lot of ranting over sending scots MP's to Westminster who have been democratically elected.

Seriously, have you any idea quite how desperate you are all beginning to sound?

If we vote a majority of SNP to westminster then so be it. We are part of the Union and will choose our representatives just the same as everyone else.

Please stay Scotland but just be quiet and do as you're told. That is exactly what is being said here. Is it any wonder people are turning to SNP in their droves?

If ever it was clear it's an unequal Union it is right now.

Yes Clapton, I'm fully expecting you to respond with just how unequal it is for Yorkshire......zzzzzz

Leanne1812 - you are so right.

I've been off the MSE site forum since the night before the referendum. I had decided that I was spending more time here than was healthy!

Then, I decided to come back a couple of days ago, and since, to see what was going on. I see the usual suspects berating any pro-SNP posters as if they should have the vote removed from them. I see posters having the nerve to express any desire to do things better being swamped under a tidal wave of graphs and charts and cries of "don't be daft, don't you dare; just abandon hope and stick with the big brother and you'll be ok".

Some cannot see the difference between liking Scotland and wanting things to be better here - and "hating" England. As you say, some also insist on equating a country that has its own legal system, education system, Church, and many areas of devolved government - with a county.

No votes without responsibility, we are told, yet IIUIC London MPs can vote on all the "national" matters devolved to Boris like police, housing, planning and environment - and I await with interest the clamour for MPs in the big English cities and other areas having their voting rights restricted when health and social care budgets are devolved. Aye right.

The message here is quite clear - the Westminster-based parties pat us on the head and say please don't go - stay and take part. When we decide to take part - but (as looks likely) decide to tell the "big 3" that we don't fancy them much, we are treated like an enemy. We can have the vote, as long as we do what we are told with it.

I dare say that I wasn't missed - and won't be again! Looking back, the only thing I really missed were Zen's caption competitions and they seem to have gone too. Well, a couple of days has been enough. I might come back for a look after the results are in, to see the forum equivalent of foaming at the mouth.

Labour in Scotland have been caught out big time. Labour has had a majority of Scottish MPs, I think. since the 1950s and have been complacent in their leading role. There is a new joke - it has been said that there are more pandas in Scotland than Conservative MPs - the new one is that there may be the same number of LibDem MPs as there are Loch Ness Monsters.

WR

Leanne1812

Wild_Rover wrote: »

Leanne1812 - you are so right.

I've been off the MSE site forum since the night before the referendum. I had decided that I was spending more time here than was healthy!

Then, I decided to come back a couple of days ago, and since, to see what was going on. I see the usual suspects berating any pro-SNP posters as if they should have the vote removed from them. I see posters having the nerve to express any desire to do things better being swamped under a tidal wave of graphs and charts and cries of "don't be daft, don't you dare; just abandon hope and stick with the big brother and you'll be ok".

Some cannot see the difference between liking Scotland and wanting things to be better here - and "hating" England. As you say, some also insist on equating a country that has its own legal system, education system, Church, and many areas of devolved government - with a county.

No votes without responsibility, we are told, yet IIUIC London MPs can vote on all the "national" matters devolved to Boris like police, housing, planning and environment - and I await with interest the clamour for MPs in the big English cities and other areas having their voting rights restricted when health and social care budgets are devolved. Aye right.

The message here is quite clear - the Westminster-based parties pat us on the head and say please don't go - stay and take part. When we decide to take part - but (as looks likely) decide to tell the "big 3" that we don't fancy them much, we are treated like an enemy. We can have the vote, as long as we do what we are told with it.

I dare say that I wasn't missed - and won't be again! Looking back, the only thing I really missed were Zen's caption competitions and they seem to have gone too. Well, a couple of days has been enough. I might come back for a look after the results are in, to see the forum equivalent of foaming at the mouth.

Labour in Scotland have been caught out big time. Labour has had a majority of Scottish MPs, I think. since the 1950s and have been complacent in their leading role. There is a new joke - it has been said that there are more pandas in Scotland than Conservative MPs - the new one is that there may be the same number of LibDem MPs as there are Loch Ness Monsters.

WR

It makes me despair........

I suppose I'm weary of being thought of as a rabid cybernat for wanting Scotland to take control of her own affairs. Stick wth us,we know what's best for you. We have your best interests at heart, this is the way things are done. This system works and you'll be best placed to let us keep control as we know best. Well, no! I disagree!

You know, it really matters little what anti SNP posters on here think. I do believe there is one one who could actually vote SNP but obviously would never do that because he is a unionist which is fine but it might do some good to accept many in Scotland are not.

.string.

You people need to get it into your heads once and for all that the SNP does not equate to Scotland. The Scots are bigger than that.

Leanne1812

.string. wrote: »

You people need to get it into your heads once and for all that the SNP does not equate to Scotland. The Scots are bigger than that.

And this post confirms the blind fury for anyone who supports SNP.

I do, so do many others. Accept it or don't. Carry on with your bitter hate filled rants. It won't make me change my views.

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Good grief!!!

What a lot of ranting over sending scots MP's to Westminster who have been democratically elected.

Seriously, have you any idea quite how desperate you are all beginning to sound?

If we vote a majority of SNP to westminster then so be it. We are part of the Union and will choose our representatives just the same as everyone else.

Please stay Scotland but just be quiet and do as you're told. That is exactly what is being said here. Is it any wonder people are turning to SNP in their droves?

If ever it was clear it's an unequal Union it is right now.

Yes Clapton, I'm fully expecting you to respond with just how unequal it is for Yorkshire......zzzzzz

why do you mock the concept that all the people should be treated equally?

what a sad situation: do you feel the same about all 'foreigners', those of different religion, different colour, race, sexual orientation, political views?

Leanne1812

CLAPTON wrote: »

why do you mock the concept that all the people should be treated equally?

what a sad situation: do you feel the same about all 'foreigners', those of different religion, different colour, race, sexual orientation, political views?

I'm not mocking Clapton. I very much believe in equality. It's one of the reasons I voted Yes.

However, I'm not getting drawn into a debate with you about Barnett. I'll just say this, for all those who feel aggrieved that Scotland gets free prescriptions & higher education I'd say why aren't you lobbying your government for this instead of feeling bitter at what others get?

Better_Days

Leanne1812 wrote: »

And this post confirms the blind fury for anyone who supports SNP.

I do, so do many others. Accept it or don't. Carry on with your bitter hate filled rants. It won't make me change my views.

I don't feel a blind fury for anyone who supports the SNP. I would be interested to know though how the SNP finances now stack up for independence now the price of oil has tanked - same way I would like to know how the Tories propose to find 12 billion of cuts. The level of fiscal responsibility of both may well turn out to be very important on May 7th.

This thread doesn't strike me as hate filled rants, but a discussion of the possibilities should the SNP win the number of seats predicted, and given the likelihood of a hung Parliament. (Especially as the referendum vote was 'no' and yet the SNP are pushing for independence - so if the SNP gets the majority of Scottish votes will it claim that it has a mandate for independence despite the outcome of the recent referendum?)

It does indeed make for interesting times......

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I'm not mocking Clapton. I very much believe in equality. It's one of the reasons I voted Yes.

However, I'm not getting drawn into a debate with you about Barnett. I'll just say this, for all those who feel aggrieved that Scotland gets free prescriptions & higher education I'd say why aren't you lobbying your government for this instead of feeling bitter at what others get?

I feel that the SNP giving huge handouts to rich parents and rich graduates in Scotland, rather than helping the disadvantaged to access higher education, is entirely a matter for the morality of the Scottish electorate.
I might have a view as to the morality and decency of the 'there is no such thing as society' Thatcherite majority in Scotland and have a personal preference for fairness and reducing inequality but that's another story.

However, the amount of money that the people of Yorkshire get should be the same as the people of Scotland.

Clearly you disagree, as you refuse to address that the essential injustice in the usual time honoured cult acolyte manner.