Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

vivatifosi wrote: »

Last week Sky News went out on to the street with the manifestos. They showed photocopied black and white pages with the party names and slogans blanked out to people to see if they could distinguish which policies were from the different parties. Most failed. There are many areas with barely a cigarette paper between them, so I wouldn't rule the above out.

depends upon what was actually shown.

most / many people vote on what they believe will actually happen rather than the manifesto 'promises'

labour and tory could easily work together if policies were the only issue, but in practice there is a long history of opposition for opposition sake

kabayiri

zagubov wrote: »

That's pretty depressing. Sounds like the kind of electoral choice they had in the soviet bloc where if they gave you any choice it would between the candidate who thinks the bins should be collected on a Tuesday and the one who thinks it should be a Wednesday.:o

Doesn't this tell us more that a lot of legislation emanates from EU anyway. Also, regardless of the political party in power, the needs of business remain the same. All parties have to look appealing to the markets and corporate world given our precarious finances.

i'm not surprised policies look similar. In reality there is not so much wriggle room as to what can be done.

.string.

Re the matter of "harm" in the two scenarios of Labour versus Conservative Government. As I mentioned before I am a floating voter and have felt free in voting for either of the main parties. The choice (if I ignore the SNP issue) was largely between wanting to protect to UK against the risk of a precipitate exit from Europe versus being reasonably sure (that exit aside) that the economic recovery would continue.

However the SNP issue (I would use the word contempt rather than hate) has altered things. Should Labour succeed and thus inevitably, be under pressure to adopt SNP policies in some areas, that would not only be unacceptable but would infuriate the English and then would certainly increase the agro felt against the SNP and, by slow osmosis, the Scots. However, should the Conservatives succeed then the SNP can more easily be forgotten/ignored by the rest of the UK, the Labour claim that an SNP vote would let in the Tories would be vindicated (playing to the infantile obsession North of the Border about the wicked Tories), and would leave Labhour in a position to fight another day with their credibility growing in Scotland.

Since the Conservatives are not, contrary to the silly claims made by the SNP, anti Scots, Scotland can expect to get substantial further devolution from the Tories as well as from Labour which will help them also.

So I conclude that it is far better for the Union and far worse for the disruptive ambitions of the SNP, if the Tories win this one and I shall be voting accordingly.

kabayiri

I wonder, if we see a minority party with a clear mandate like the SNP do well, would this give rise to other minority parties?

How about a London party? What if they sought to rebalance a perceived injustice where they felt they were subsidising the rest of the country?

How about an English party? A National party for England.

Would we accept these minority parties, or do we think it starts to fragment things too much?

CLAPTON

kabayiri wrote: »

I wonder, if we see a minority party with a clear mandate like the SNP do well, would this give rise to other minority parties?

How about a London party? What if they sought to rebalance a perceived injustice where they felt they were subsidising the rest of the country?

How about an English party? A National party for England.

Would we accept these minority parties, or do we think it starts to fragment things too much?

I would doubt it

The SNP are a rather different case as there is a clear and widespread racist element in their wish to differentiate themselves from the English.

Tromking

Generali wrote: »

If, as I suspect, the SNP are out to gain maximum cash for Scotland whilst driving as big a wedge as possible between the English and Scottish then Labour and Conservatives can simply repeal the Fixed Terms of Parliament.

I don't know how you haven't worked out that it would be electoral suicide for any British party to kowtow to the SNP. If a party loses Scotland they can win an election as the Tories have many times but if a party loses England they will never form a Government.

You seem to think that the SNP can simply do whatever the heck they want with no consequences from English voters. That simply isn't the case.

Yes, there`s real political capital to be had now in being anti-Scottish, that`s being really anti Scottish by the way, not the SNP invented Westminster guff they like to peddle to the terminally dim nationalists North of the Border.
To some thats really good news, as irritating the English is all part of the plan, but its the 55% i feel sorry for.

zagubov

kabayiri wrote: »

I wonder, if we see a minority party with a clear mandate like the SNP do well, would this give rise to other minority parties?

How about a London party? What if they sought to rebalance a perceived injustice where they felt they were subsidising the rest of the country?

How about an English party? A National party for England.

Would we accept these minority parties, or do we think it starts to fragment things too much?

I voted for devolution for London (and we got it) but no party has arisen by name to fill that niche. There is little sign of a unifying local identity among the people I encounter, nor does it feel as strongly English as other cities I've visited.

The Lib Dems have always promoted regional identities and autonomy, and have in the past pushed for a federal Britain.

Whereas, regarding a National Party for England, take your pick.

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

I voted for devolution for London (and we got it) but no party has arisen by name to fill that niche. There is little sign of a unifying local identity among the people I encounter, nor does it feel as strongly English as other cities I've visited.

The Lib Dems have always promoted regional identities and autonomy, and have in the past pushed for a federal Britain.

Whereas, regarding a National Party for England, take your pick.

It's funny really because the place in the UK that delivers a subsidy to the rest of the country year after year whilst being roundly hated for it is London. For Londoners this has always been a complete non-issue, I suspect because most Londoners realise that they live in an amazing, if flawed, place and the extra tax paid is a little toll on living there.

It's been the same for centuries too. London was so powerful back in the day that the Lord Mayor had to swear an oath to the King/Queen in a huge display of wealth every year and indeed still does: the Lord Mayor's show.

kabayiri

zagubov wrote: »

I voted for devolution for London (and we got it) but no party has arisen by name to fill that niche. There is little sign of a unifying local identity among the people I encounter, nor does it feel as strongly English as other cities I've visited.
...

Interesting. Does it need to feel 'strongly English' though for a narrow-based agenda party to emerge? I don't think it matters where people are from in London.

All they really need is a clear boundary definition, and a shared cause. It wouldn't take someone long to show graphs illustrating just how much Londoners subsidise the Welsh or the Scots or the NW / NE etc. If I was a Londoner why would I not vote in self interest to reduce this subsidy?

I think the rise and success of the SNP in British politics will be closely watched for many reasons.

Moby

With power will come greater scrutiny for the SNP and that is right and democratic.
As a person living and working in London myself I have no problem at all with subsidies to other regions because you look at the bigger picture and I guess I'm not as selfish as some.
Another interesting take from tebbit:-
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/21/lord-tebbit-conservative-supporters-vote-labour-scotland-keep-out-snp