Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

well, let's hope that the SNP use their awesome power like they did in 1979.

Did they make millions throughout the UK vote Tory instead of Labour.. Wow !

elantan

CLAPTON wrote: »

In your case, I was surprise at your degree of self knowledge

See u learn something new every day , for instance today I learned you must think of me often, I quite like the idea of living rent free in your head ... It is MSE after all

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Did they make millions throughout the UK vote Tory instead of Labour.. Wow !

The SNP provided the opportunity for the Tories to get into power and show what they could achieve.

Apparently the people seemed to like it for a while.

I appreciate that the SNP don't approve of that sort of democracy and believe they deserve eternal power.

A new paradigm is beginning where more and will learn that the SNP believe the Yorkshire person is of less worth than the Scot and they won't like it.

It will take some time, just like Nick was a breath of fresh air for a while, by people who hadn't bothered to find out about actual policies.

But we agree on the fundamentals: the essential issue is to ensure a new independence referendum and the SNP to disguise their true nature until it is too late.

Win for the national socialists in Scotland and a win for the English : a marriage made in heaven (but we will keep our armed forces as one day we will surely need them).
Fortunately the 'losers' will just come south to a warm welcome both from the English but also from the ex-pats, who while dearly supporting Scottish independence, will never actually return there.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Great.

So what is the point of the SNP at a national level? No referendum "for a generation", FFA is clearly a pipedream. What do they plan to achieve at a national level beyond sowing hatred and division?

They have run a devolved Government for the last 8 years on a 'national level'. At a UK level, well, is obvious the leap between the current devolved powers and independence was too much of a leap. So the way to deal with that, is not to make it so very much of a leap next time. So further powers and much more in the way of responsibility devolved to Scotland will be good for a start. It won't be so much of an 'unknown' next time if things like welfare/minimum wage etc are in Holyroods hands.

They didn't get where they are by sowing hatred and division. Far from it.They've just been quite good in running a Scottish Government ( not perfect ). But, if we're talking hatred and division that's what the Tories are trying their best to do right now. So much so that even old Tory grandee's are advising against it.

At a 'national level' in your terms, then the function of the SNP right at this moment in time. Is to deny Tories a further five years in power, but make sure Labour don't take power and do exactly the same as the Tories would have.

The SNP can't bring down a Labour Government but with a fixed term parliament it will be almost impossible for a Westminster Government ever to be brought down. Governments can how be defeated on budgets, confidence, legislation emaciated without precipitating an election.

The fixed term parliament act was probably a bit of a mistake in retrospect. And if there is one thing Alex Salmond is very, very good at, is looking at small print and using it well and to maximum advantage ( see Budget 1988 ). The SNP are now free to vote how they like. Or not, or to negotiate 'compromises'. All made possible, thanks to one Ed Miliband.. who helpfully, dismisses the SNP as an irrelevance at the present time. 'It's a no I'm afraid Nicola'

Whether he'll do any deals post election is another matter altogether. 'Oh you want us to vote for austerity cuts.. it's a no I'm afraid Ed'. 'HS2, it's a no I'm afraid Ed'.. It leaves Labour having to court Tory votes for things like Trident and other things the SNP won't vote for. Which won't of course go down well north of the border re Labour. But the SNP won't bring his government down on a specific confidence vote. No fear of that don't worry. If the polls play out of course. It's all speculation.

The point of the SNP is very obvious at the moment. It's why the polls are so good for them. It's Scottish Labour that doesn't seem to have much of a point up here at the mo.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

The SNP provided the opportunity for the Tories to get into power and show what they could achieve.

Apparently the people seemed to like it for a while.

I appreciate that the SNP don't approve of that sort of democracy and believe they deserve eternal power.

A new paradigm is beginning where more and will learn that the SNP believe the Yorkshire person is of less worth than the Scot and they won't like it.

It will take some time, just like Nick was a breath of fresh air for a while, by people who hadn't bothered to find out about actual policies.

But we agree on the fundamentals: the essential issue is to ensure a new independence referendum and the SNP to disguise their true nature until it is too late.

Win for the national socialists in Scotland and a win for the English : a marriage made in heaven (but we will keep our armed forces as one day we will surely need them).
Fortunately the 'losers' will just come south to a warm welcome both from the English but also from the ex-pats, who while dearly supporting Scottish independence, will never actually return there.

I think if the SNP get into ( balance of ) power in Westminster, then there will be a move towards Scottish independence, from England as in kicking them out. It just depends how strong that move is.

The SNP as you say, the sun won't shine forever. That's what happens in politics. They'll have to make the very most of it.

England voted Margaret Thatcher in. Jim Callahan's memoirs say the same. Scotland certainly didn't like it. But it's just another example of politics and wheels turning. 1979 was a long time ago. Is useless trying to compare the SNP then, with the SNP now. Almost certainly when most of those under 50 can hardly remember it.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think if the SNP get into ( balance of ) power in Westminster, then there will be a move towards Scottish independence, from England as in kicking them out. It just depends how strong that move is.

The SNP as you say, the sun won't shine forever. That's what happens in politics. They'll have to make the very most of it.

England voted Margaret Thatcher in. Jim Callahan's memoirs say the same. Scotland certainly didn't like it. But it's just another example of politics and wheels turning. 1979 was a long time ago. Is useless trying to compare the SNP then, with the SNP now. Almost certainly when most of those under 50 can hardly remember it.

really?
no one in Scotland remembers the poll tax?

You'll be telling me that you can't remember what Bannockburn was about or the words to Flower of Scotland.

Although for very different reasons, we are united in wanting all the unfairness of the Scottish / Yorkshire situation settle once and for all, even when it mean Scotland defaulting on its debts.

The SNP leadership has indeed learned a lot since those days but we will see how it plays out : events have a habit of making fools of all of us.
Maybe Labour and Tory will find more common ground that was historically the case.

vivatifosi

CLAPTON wrote: »

Maybe Labour and Tory will find more common ground that was historically the case.

Last week Sky News went out on to the street with the manifestos. They showed photocopied black and white pages with the party names and slogans blanked out to people to see if they could distinguish which policies were from the different parties. Most failed. There are many areas with barely a cigarette paper between them, so I wouldn't rule the above out.

zagubov

vivatifosi wrote: »

Last week Sky News went out on to the street with the manifestos. They showed photocopied black and white pages with the party names and slogans blanked out to people to see if they could distinguish which policies were from the different parties. Most failed. There are many areas with barely a cigarette paper between them, so I wouldn't rule the above out.

That's pretty depressing. Sounds like the kind of electoral choice they had in the soviet bloc where if they gave you any choice it would between the candidate who thinks the bins should be collected on a Tuesday and the one who thinks it should be a Wednesday.:o

.string.

kabayiri wrote: »

Does this work because voters are looking for simple solutions to what are in truth fairly complex problems. Voters want someone or something to blame.

E.g Austerity vs No Austerity. It sounds an easy choice. It isn't of course, and perhaps we should discuss the nature of the austerity required - do we need a rebalance of the economy for example.

I agree that "austerity" needs examination.

Was it caused by the financial disaster that happened or was it a deliberate policy by the Tories to make the poor and vulnerable pay for the mistakes of the rich?

What is austerity: is it something caused by the policies of the Coalition Government or is it a statement of what it has always been like to be poor?

Who is poor and vulnerable and is it true that the poor and vulnerable have suffered more than anyone; Who are rich and is it true that they have benefited from the financial disaster?

Does austerity really exist? Is there a better word for what we are going through?

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The fixed term parliament act was probably a bit of a mistake in retrospect. And if there is one thing Alex Salmond is very, very good at, is looking at small print and using it well and to maximum advantage ( see Budget 1988 ). The SNP are now free to vote how they like. Or not, or to negotiate 'compromises'. All made possible, thanks to one Ed Miliband.. who helpfully, dismisses the SNP as an irrelevance at the present time. 'It's a no I'm afraid Nicola'

Indeed.

If, as I suspect, the SNP are out to gain maximum cash for Scotland whilst driving as big a wedge as possible between the English and Scottish then Labour and Conservatives can simply repeal the Fixed Terms of Parliament.

I don't know how you haven't worked out that it would be electoral suicide for any British party to kowtow to the SNP. If a party loses Scotland they can win an election as the Tories have many times but if a party loses England they will never form a Government.

You seem to think that the SNP can simply do whatever the heck they want with no consequences from English voters. That simply isn't the case.