Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

This just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I can use a clear example. I, along with many others, was involved with the massive growth in the Chinese industrial base.

Do you think that at the end of the 80s, China had sufficient capital to implement the industrial change needed? They had NOWHERE close to those funds.

It was Western capital they managed to attract. This worked because those same investors could see the potential in the economy and it's workforce.

There is no reason why a lean Scotland could not attract major capital investment. It can take years though, and involves tough changes. Don't use Westminster as an excuse holding you back.

Don't be daft, taxes go to Westminster. Fixed grant back. Of course the levers aren't there. Nothing of much significant value to the economy is raised and kept in Scotland.

Imagine it the other way round. England paying taxes etc to Holyrood, getting a fixed grant back.. then someone telling you 'don't use Holyrood as an excuse'.. Scotland does garner investment.. the taxes from the profits/wages go elsewhere however.

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

Perhaps over a 10-20 year period. Under the policies you propose Scotland would be broke today. That ruination would prevent any investment in shifting the focus of Scotland's economy.

IIRC, the SNP's idea was to shift energy production to renewables and then export the surplus. Last time I checked, renewables prices in Scotland were about 3xoil/gas electricity costs (actually slightly less). The change in the prices of gas and oil since would imply that renewables would be about 5-6x the price of oil/gas powered electricity.

What's the new plan for economic diversification?

Further powers to implement any of them would be a start ? They'll have 5 years in Westminster if the polls are correct, and another 4 in Holyrood. Plenty of time to lay some groundwork. As a recent commentator said 'the sun won't shine on the SNP forever'.. they'll be busy making the most of it economic powers wise.

Am sure Mirrlees and Stiglitz will keep them right. No-one, as you request can have any idea what economic diversification will be possible, until there are powers there to do so. Independence was lost on the economic arguments/perceived risks. We seem to be starting all over again re-running the same one's with FFA/Devo Max. Newspapers and tv are starting to ramp it up as well. Salmond does a whole chapter on possible outcomes of more powers at the end of his book. He does know a little teeny bit about oil prices...So do the above economists who work with the Scottish govt.

Ps kabayiri I know this is an economics forum. However, there are political threads which appear on it from time to time ( such as 'who will win the General Election ).. this one will probably be moved down to DT at some point. So no need to get knickers in a twist about it.

Generali

How would Scotland pay for the groundwork?

There isn't any money.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Ps kabayiri I know this is an economics forum. However, there are political threads which appear on it from time to time ( such as 'who will win the General Election ).. this one will probably be moved down to DT at some point. So no need to get knickers in a twist about it.

I thought you might have forgotten

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Don't be daft, taxes go to Westminster. Fixed grant back. Of course the levers aren't there. Nothing of much significant value to the economy is raised and kept in Scotland.

Imagine it the other way round. England paying taxes etc to Holyrood, getting a fixed grant back.. then someone telling you 'don't use Holyrood as an excuse'.. Scotland does garner investment.. the taxes from the profits/wages go elsewhere however.

You missed the point completely.

It is international investors and big business who have the money. There are very few states in the Western economy with anything like a surplus of money.

To attract investment make sure you have the right workforce, properly skilled, coupled with a sound long term investment plan.

...oh, and don't go on about socialist spending like there is some kind of bottomless pit - coz there isn't!

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

...
IIRC, the SNP's idea was to shift energy production to renewables and then export the surplus. Last time I checked, renewables prices in Scotland were about 3xoil/gas electricity costs (actually slightly less). The change in the prices of gas and oil since would imply that renewables would be about 5-6x the price of oil/gas powered electricity.

What's the new plan for economic diversification?

One of the big problems with renewables as an energy source is the transmission costs for shipping electricity.

For some reason the public hate miles and miles of pylons, even though they are an order of magnitude cheaper than burying the power transmission cables.

As a country we need to spend billions on the national grid over the next couple of decades.

kabayiri

Voltaire7 wrote: »

Are you taking about the Conservatives?

I don't believe any of the major parties have some kind of magic bullet solution to the challenges we face.

The Conservatives are perhaps slightly more open about the cuts we need.

As for the socialists, they might as well be on Fantasy Island.

kabayiri

By chance I found this promotional video of the new independent Scotland, renamed Fantasy Island by the SNP liberation team.

If you watch in to the minute point, you can see Alex Salmond looking forward to welcoming a group of English tourists flying in.

I must say he looks very smart with that dicky bow.

https://youtu.be/1x_QbVDlLbI

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

You missed the point completely.

It is international investors and big business who have the money. There are very few states in the Western economy with anything like a surplus of money.

To attract investment make sure you have the right workforce, properly skilled, coupled with a sound long term investment plan.

...oh, and don't go on about socialist spending like there is some kind of bottomless pit - coz there isn't!

Sigh...Attracting the investments doesn't seem to be the problem. Competing with London and the South East however..

9 June 2014

Foreign investment into Scotland has reached its highest level for 16 years, a report has shown.
Accounting firm EY (Ernst and Young) also said that Scotland remained second only to London as a place foreign firms want to do business in the UK.The firm identified 82 projects where overseas firms invested in Scotland last year, up from 76 the year before.

However, there was a fall in the number of jobs they gave rise to, attributed to a decline in manufacturing...

...The report goes on to warn that Scotland faces a battle to win the hearts and minds of global investors, as London and the south east becomes an increasingly powerful magnet for their money.
To help address this, the report urges the maximisation of global events to sharpen Scotland's competitive edge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27747527

10 February 2015

Real estate investment in Scotland rose 82 per cent last year to £3.2 billion according to new statistics from property agents Jones Lang Lasalle (JLL).
The statistics for 2014 show the South East, Scotland and the West Midlands were the top three UK regions for investment, with volumes of £5.7 billion, £3.2 billion and £2.7 billion respectively.
In growth terms, year on year investment volumes rose by 29 per cent in the South East, 82 per cent in Scotland and 67 per cent in the West Midlands.


London was the leading global destination for direct real estate investment in 2014, recording £27.5billion of transactions.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-property/real-estate-investment-scotland-up-5136615

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

By chance I found this promotional video of the new independent Scotland, renamed Fantasy Island by the SNP liberation team.

If you watch in to the minute point, you can see Alex Salmond looking forward to welcoming a group of English tourists flying in.

I must say he looks very smart with that dicky bow.

https://youtu.be/1x_QbVDlLbI

I guess David Cameron will be along soon wearing a lei garland and hula skirt.. That Tory majority or even close is looking just as much Fantasy Island these days.