Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think it's only an extra 2000 ( from current levels ) that are needed each year. Am guessing if an aging population is a problem, pretty soon there will be loads of job vacancies and empty properties. And at least the Scottish Government are actually building houses/stopped 'right to buy'. I think one of the goals is an attempt to stop graduates moving away also, use their skills here. All about the jobs really. But certainly, the immigration 'problem' is just about non-existent up here compared to other areas of the UK.

2000 people is about 0.04% of the Scottish population : is lack of labour really a problem except spin in favour of independence?

If, in the future, you have masses of job vacancies at good rates of pay, I'm sure people will come without an specific government policy and without requiring further borrowing or taxation.

I would think you would be better able to hang on to good graduates if the threat of separation from the rest of UK didn't hang over their heads and if you stopped discriminating against young English people wanting to study at your universities.


'right to buy' frees up underused but substantial homes, often with only one person living there, so they can be used by overcrowded families
but if Scotland already has sufficient homes already then that isn't a problem.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The Scottish Government would need the powers to do all of those things. They don't have it. That's not rocket science either. Public spending ( within the constraints of what the Scottish Govt get )..isn't much different from that in other area's of the UK. Also some things haven't been privatised up here ( Scottish Water etc ) so are included in public spending figs.

Clearly Osborne is listening, from his budget speech.

"The chancellor is talking about the devolution of powers to the regions. He calls an agreement with Greater Manchester on an elected mayor "the most exciting development in civic leadership for a generation, adding: "We have now reached provisional agreement to allow Greater Manchester to keep 100% of the additional growth in local business rates as we build up the Northern Powerhouse."

(courtesy of the BBC)

This is *exactly* the sort of localised focussed support we need.

Lest we forget Manchester Airport is one of the most successful transport hubs and brings in good revenue.

The NW didn't have to demand independence. We are being positive about becoming a significant region within the UK.

Happy days

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Clearly Osborne is listening, from his budget speech.

"The chancellor is talking about the devolution of powers to the regions. He calls an agreement with Greater Manchester on an elected mayor "the most exciting development in civic leadership for a generation, adding: "We have now reached provisional agreement to allow Greater Manchester to keep 100% of the additional growth in local business rates as we build up the Northern Powerhouse."

(courtesy of the BBC)

This is *exactly* the sort of localised focussed support we need.

Lest we forget Manchester Airport is one of the most successful transport hubs and brings in good revenue.

The NW didn't have to demand independence. We are being positive about becoming a significant region within the UK.

Happy days

And then Labour get in... But am all for devolution of powers if it reflects local needs, daily lives and interests better than currently !

Ps once you are a significant region, you'll want still more powers lol !

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

I think you don't understand what Pork Barrel Spending is.

Nobody that I'm aware of promised loads of extra spending for Scotland. They did promise a change to the constitution. The former would have been pork. The latter is constitutional politics.

You're right. And no-one is asking for it either 'just for Scotland'. So you'll be glad to hear that. Are you under the misguided impression that Scots voters think otherwise ?

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Ps once you are a significant region, you'll want still more powers lol !

We already are a significant region.

Why else would the government support a multi-billion pound High Speed railway to the region?



Lovverrrly Jubbly.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

2000 people is about 0.04% of the Scottish population : is lack of labour really a problem except spin in favour of independence?

If, in the future, you have masses of job vacancies at good rates of pay, I'm sure people will come without an specific government policy and without requiring further borrowing or taxation.

I would think you would be better able to hang on to good graduates if the threat of separation from the rest of UK didn't hang over their heads and if you stopped discriminating against young English people wanting to study at your universities.


'right to buy' frees up underused but substantial homes, often with only one person living there, so they can be used by overcrowded families
but if Scotland already has sufficient homes already then that isn't a problem.

Oh no, it wasn't an argument for independence. The aging population thing was trotted out by BetterTogether every 5 mins. It's one of the reasons apparently Scotland could never be independent. We're all dying off.

Hanging on to graduates.. well, that's tough, when most of the best jobs are elsewhere. Again, it's down to the jobs market up here. It'll be a real challenge turning it round. But certainly, the way things are, isn't helping matters in that regard.

I'm not getting into the University fee's thing again. English MP's and Scottish Labour MP's voted them in for England. Tories and Lib Dems increased them further. Take it up with them if you don't like it. Nowt to do with Scotland.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And then Labour get in...

I think their chances are receding frankly.

Ed sounds desperate.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Oh no, it wasn't an argument for independence. The aging population thing was trotted out by BetterTogether every 5 mins. It's one of the reasons apparently Scotland could never be independent. We're all dying off.

Hanging on to graduates.. well, that's tough, when most of the best jobs are elsewhere. Again, it's down to the jobs market up here. It'll be a real challenge turning it round. But certainly, the way things are, isn't helping matters in that regard.

I'm not getting into the University fee's thing again. English MP's and Scottish Labour MP's voted them in for England. Tories and Lib Dems increased them further. Take it up with them if you don't like it. Nowt to do with Scotland.

The need for a different immigration policy was an argument for Scottish independence.
A total nonsense of course.

The devolved powers allow for variations between the regions of the UK: otherwise there would be no point in holyrood.
In the same way that Scotland doesn't have to have the same rules as England, England does not have to have the same rules as Scotland.

SNP were solely responsible for the choice to charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish young people higher fees than the EU students and Scottish home students :
NO-one MADE you do it : it was your free choice
I can't take it up with English MPs as they don't have the power to change Scottish Uni policy.

When SNP sweep the board at May election, most companies and eager young graduates will see Scotland as having an uncertain future and will choose to invest their money and energy further south:
they will be made very welcome and can be assured they will suffer no discrimination due to the place of their birth.


Anyway : congratulating upon the SNP voting the First Minister the highest pay of all UK politicians : a sign of things to come. (I note she isn't going to take all the money )

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It was Cameron, Clegg and Milliband that promised most of the pork Generali.. You're surely not suggesting the Vow etc was just a paniced ruse in order to make sure the referendum returned a No vote...and that they had no intention on delivering the pork they promised ? :eek:

Is that what you're saying ?

Would you please be specific and state which parts of the "vow" you would describe as Pork.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

The need for a different immigration policy was an argument for Scottish independence.
A total nonsense of course.

The devolved powers allow for variations between the regions of the UK: otherwise there would be no point in holyrood.
In the same way that Scotland doesn't have to have the same rules as England, England does not have to have the same rules as Scotland.

SNP were solely responsible for the choice to charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish young people higher fees than the EU students and Scottish home students :
NO-one MADE you do it : it was your free choice
I can't take it up with English MPs as they don't have the power to change Scottish Uni policy.

When SNP sweep the board at May election, most companies and eager young graduates will see Scotland as having an uncertain future and will choose to invest their money and energy further south:
they will be made very welcome and can be assured they will suffer no discrimination due to the place of their birth.

Well I guess Westminster shouldn't have introduced it for English students then. An economic basketcase such as Scotland couldn't afford to educate the hordes of English students that would no doubt descend for free..
If it were the other way round, you'd be barring Scots students, because 1000's of them would be on their way down. Daily Mail headlines are bad enough with just 40 Scots MP's mabye getting into Westminster. Can you imagine if it was 1000's of Scottish scrounging students !! No, English students shouldn't want to be scrounging off of Scottish Taxpayers largesse..

European law makes clear students from EU members states cannot be offered a worse deal than home ones. However, the devolved settlement has led to Holyrood allowing Scottish universities to charge English, Welsh and Northern Irish students fees.
Phil Shiner, the leading lawyer at Pil, said last year: "A responsible Scottish Government ought to safeguard its higher education system in a proportionate and fair way."
Last night, a spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said: "The case was clearly invalid because tuition fee arrangements are based on where you live not nationality.
"The Scottish Government ensures that undergraduates who live in Scotland and are studying in Scotland pay no tuition fees – it is Westminster which refuses to pay for students who live in England."
The spokeswoman added: "The UK Government's actions to hike tuition fees in England meant action was needed to ensure continued access to Scottish universities for Scottish-based students. However, the situation where students from other parts of the UK pay fees in Scotland and EU students do not has been in place for well over a decade."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/legal-challenge-over-fees-for-english-students-fails.20088061

Anyway : congratulating upon the SNP voting the First Minister the highest pay of all UK politicians : a sign of things to come. (I note she isn't going to take all the money )

Yes,, I think it was the Labour party in Holyrood that set those sliding scales up for MSP's ...obviously thinking they would be in power forever in Scotland. Then it all went a bit wrong..

The Scottish Parliament's presiding officer has recommended cutting the formal link between MSPs' and MPs' pay.
The move is designed to avoid MSPs being given the same 11% wage rise as their Westminster counterparts.
The salary of MSPs has been linked to that of MPs since 2002, with politicians at Holyrood paid 87.5% of an MP's wage..

...Instead, plans will now be put to MSPs which would directly link their salary to public sector pay increases across Scotland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25305090
You should look further than headlines occasionally. They can be misleading. Nicola was never going to take that sort of pay rise. Neither was any other MSP with an 11% rise. Holyrood is quite good that way.