Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

chewmylegoff

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think the English NHS may well look very different in 5 years time. She's a consultant working within the NHS. As such she probably knows quite a bit more about it than you or I. She said that the NHS wouldn't be safe from cuts if there was a No vote. Better Together said it would. It isn't, says Labour 6 months later.. I'd trust her more than any Labour or Tory politician to say what's what NHS wise, in either England or Scotland.

You don't trust her you - you know she lied to try to win more votes - you just refuse to ever admit that the SNP and their mouthpieces do anything or say anything wrong - which is unsurprising as you are an SNP mouthpiece, supporting them like a football team and reminiscing about the time you went to the same supermarket as your heroine 'Nicola'.

Shakethedisease

chewmylegoff wrote: »

You don't trust her you - you know she lied to try to win more votes - you just refuse to ever admit that the SNP and their mouthpieces do anything or say anything wrong - which is unsurprising as you are an SNP mouthpiece, supporting them like a football team and reminiscing about the time you went to the same supermarket as your heroine 'Nicola'.

What a wonderful, constructive and insightful post. Demonstrates beautifully the persona of someone who has probably nothing left of constructive use to say on a particular topic.. so resorts to personal digs in the vain hope it will provoke a similarly negative reaction.

On this occasion, I'll pass thank you.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think the English NHS may well look very different in 5 years time. She's a consultant working within the NHS. As such she probably knows quite a bit more about it than you or I. She said that the NHS wouldn't be safe from cuts if there was a No vote. Better Together said it would. It isn't, says Labour 6 months later.. I'd trust her more than any Labour or Tory politician to say what's what NHS wise, in either England or Scotland.

I'm glad you said that.

So as she was some-one working in the health service (and in a cancer specialist) one would expect her to be very knowledgeable and accurate about any specific issue.
In fact we know she lied just like a politician.

The fact you would trust some-one who lied says at least as much about you as about her and absolutely nothing about the English NHS.

But we all know that SNP acolytes have no regard for any objective information if it conflicts with the great leader spin.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

I'm glad you said that.

So as she was some-one working in the health service (and in a cancer specialist) one would expect her to be very knowledgeable and accurate about any specific issue.
In fact we know she lied just like a politician.

The fact you would trust some-one who lied says at least as much about you as about her and absolutely nothing about the English NHS.

But we all know that SNP acolytes have no regard for any objective information if it conflicts with the great leader spin.

Right, so you think that the fact that BetterTogether said there would be no cuts because the Scottish Government controlled 'everything'... and then 6 months later, are saying something different, and that now the Scottish NHS is in great peril because the Scottish Government doesn't control everything.. is somehow excusable ? Are you saying they weren't lying ?

Who's the acolyte ?

For what it's worth I came to the very obvious conclusion that cutting funding from Westminster to the Scottish Budget would result in cuts in Scottish NHS funding...long before Dr Whitford's video went viral. I think most of us did, it's not rocket science. The Scottish govt control admin, not the overall budget allocated.
She was right though, completely right.. and we all knew she was right too. She's a breast cancer surgeon, a very busy lady. Am sure we can forgive her a mistake in the minutiae. Her overall conclusions proved correct. As Jim Murphy and Ed Milliband proved last week.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No you out and out called BS when I suggested that most polling now in Scotland uses 2011 weighting. You're backtracking. In short, if it's a UK poll, they use 2010 weighting, if it's a purely Scottish wide poll they tend to use 2011 weighting. Hope that clears that up for you.

When there's been a big change in a party's support it becomes problematic to use the previous vote. Using an entirely different vote to measure previous support is even worse unless you believe that people use the same reasoning to vote in different elections.

If you believe people use the same reasoning in different elections explain Boris: London is Labour but Boris isn't.

The choice pollsters have is to use 2010 which is wrong or to use 2011 which is wrong.

I'm not saying that the polls over or under estimate the SNP's support I'm saying that the margin for error is huge.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Right, so you think that the fact that BetterTogether said there would be no cuts because the Scottish Government controlled 'everything'... and then 6 months later, are saying something different, and that now the Scottish NHS is in great peril because the Scottish Government doesn't control everything.. is somehow excusable ? Are you saying they weren't lying ?

Who's the acolyte ?

For what it's worth I came to the very obvious conclusion that cutting funding from Westminster to the Scottish Budget would result in cuts in Scottish NHS funding...long before Dr Whitford's video went viral. I think most of us did, it's not rocket science. The Scottish govt control admin, not the overall budget allocated.
She was right though, completely right.. and we all knew she was right too. She's a breast cancer surgeon, a very busy lady. Am sure we can forgive her a mistake in the minutiae. Her overall conclusions proved correct. As Jim Murphy and Ed Milliband proved last week.

The Scottish Government could always increase taxes if they want to spend more money.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Generali wrote: »

The Scottish Government could always increase taxes if they want to spend more money.

Well they'd need to increase income taxes by 15p on the pound just to cover the deficit this year....

Nicola Sturgeon’s plans to cut all financial ties with the UK would require the equivalent of a 15p hike in income tax, economic experts have warned after official figures showed Scotland is much deeper in the red thanks to its higher spending.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11465595/SNP-devo-max-plans-mean-15p-on-income-tax.html

Ooops...

Actually, it would be more than that.

but a flight of high earners from Scotland would “likely mean increases would have to be somewhat greater than this”.

Damn that pesky economic reality.....

Generali

It appears that the 'Vote SNP get Tory' message isn't having an impact in Scotland:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9288?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PollingReport+%28UK+Polling+Report%29

The Scottish poll also included some questions designed to tease out how effective Labour attempts to fight the SNP with a “vote SNP get Tory” sort of message. The short answer is not very. Essentially, for such an approach to work SNP voters would need to believe that returning SNP MPs really would make a Tory government more likely, would need to think a Conservative government was significantly worse than the alternative and would need to consider avoiding a Tory government as more important to them than the opportunity of returning lots of SNP MPs. All of these requirements are quite weakly represented amongst SNP voters – only 27% of SNP voters buy the argument that more SNP MPs will make a Conservative government more likely and while 38% of SNP voters think a Labour government at Westminster would be better for Scotland than a Tory one, only 15% think there’s “much” difference, and 49% think there’s little difference at all. Finally, even if SNP voters!did!think that returning SNP MPs would make a Tory government more likely, by 46% to 31% they’d rather have a Tory government and lots of SNP MPs than a Labour government and not many.

ruggedtoast

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Am I just another wee lassie with a tin hat? :rotfl:


Does the fact that I take an interest in the future political landscape of my country irk you or makes you feel I'm somehow dissatisfied with my life? It may not matter too much to the 6 billion who share this planet but it does to me as I live here in Scotland and would you believe, austerity, cuts & taxes do affect me personally. I'm no different from any other UK resident. I'll vote for the party I feel best represent me & my views & that's nothing to be ashamed about.

What is frustrating is being part of this Union but really not being allowed to feel part of it. To remain a minor entity and keep quiet. If scots vote SNP then that's our democratic right. Why is everyone up in arms about this? Will the voice of 50 or so scots mp ever be louder than 600 UK mp's?

If you're going to vote for a party that sets itself in opposition to the rest of the UK, don't be surprised if you find yourself in opposition to the rest of the UK.

Talking to Scottish Nationalists is like having a discussion with a stuck record player. I recommend you get out and see some of the world. You will find it enlightening.

skintmacflint

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I am certainly not having a laugh. There was thankfully an audience member who had an opposing view but the panel mostly
seemed in agreement with the betrayal if we vote Snp. And all the while no SNP representative to try and balance it out.........

I think you too are mixing up England/rUK and Westminster. Wouldn't it be good for all of us to mix it up and turn Westminster upside down? An alternative voice to the 2 big parties, one of which will be our next gov. Aren't all Mp's there to represent their constituents? That's their intention as it should be.

.

Apologies Leanne, I genuinely thought you were being sarcastic. There's a lot of it on this thread, including from myself on occasion.

There would be no problem with us sending a large contingent of SNP MPs down to Westminster, if it hadn't been made pretty obvious what the tactics were starting with Salmonds resignation speech on the 19th.

No I wouldn't be happy to see Westminster turned upside down, or a peasants revolt. I want a stable government to create balance for everyone in the UK. For us to recover and build back up , for the benefit of everyone. That needs compromise across government parties, working together.

Westminster reform and change can be better and less painfully achieved working together, instead of against each other.