autoenrolment cancels housing and council tax benefit

stu12345_2

those that rent, eg 8 million, and everyone pays council tax even if you own. ive read many articles such as the CAB, and they all point out even if on max flat rate pension, your private pension cancels out housing and council tax awards.
i plugged in calculator today and my award is equal to a 100000 index linked annuity.

why penalize yourself. i have a workmate renting from council, almost 60, opts out always, they have some savings which they will use to retire say at 62, get state pension at 65 as they have done 35 yrs cont and live rest of their retirement in council property.
they refuse to stop saving in isa and use the money to save via autoenrolment. and if they did they would cash it in and spend it before 65. as they intend to do with their cash savings

mgdavid

why?
do you really need to ask?
becuase we have self-respect.
But you probably don't get it (or are just trolling).

Paul_Herring

stu12345 wrote: »

your private pension cancels out housing and council tax awards.

I'd rather hope that my private pension, when I come to take it, would be a lot more than my housing and council tax bills....

But then again, I'm saving more than the paltry limit that the auto-enrolment currently (and in the future will) stipulates.

stu12345_2

a gov advisor said the removal of buying an annuity is wrong cos the gov gave the pension saver tax referral based on the promise they bought a lifetime annuity, now the new rules allow savers to generate savings minus tax and spend as the like, therefore better than isa savers.
if an isa saver had used up their savings or indeed someone had no savings, then no prob getting housing or council tax award when retired. thus pension freedom can allow saver to be rewarded twice, now, income tax deferral and the potential to still get housing and council tax and also even care home fees help if they spend pension before 65 or 67 and reduce it to the 10000 cash savings for assistance. if you are 21 and intend to invest for 40 yrs this isnt a worry, but if you are nearing 50 this is cause for thought,

stu12345_2

self respect is a phrase my upper class ex royal navy friend batters on about, but he still claims carers allowance and child benefit. and if you have lots in the bank and u were made unemployed how would u feel if i didnt and we were both laid off for a long term and u had to dwindle ur savings and i didnt cos i enjoyed my wages to the full.
this isnt a troll, its for all the low paid workers out there wondering if its really worth saving and its potential consequences.
after all the cab wouldnt mention the effect a private pension has on state entitlements

as the above poster mentioned those that can save above the paltry recomendations and for a very longtime may not heed my post, but for the majority of low paid workers heading even closer to retirement this post should be of great concern.

Paul_Herring

stu12345 wrote: »

a gov advisor said the removal of buying an annuity is wrong cos the gov gave the pension saver tax referral based on the promise they bought a lifetime annuity,

ITYM 'tax deferral'

And
1) Government advisors aren't paragons of virtue and independence when it comes to telling the government what the proletariat should be doing.
2) It's still tax deferral, since, unless you're only withdrawing less than your tax allowance minus your state pension, you're still going to be paying tax on it.

So - that bit's clearly bunkum.

stu12345 wrote: »

now the new rules allow savers to generate savings minus tax and spend as the like, therefore better than isa savers.

This was the case before the change - nothing has really changed that much in favour of the saver. If anything it's in favour of the government because the saver (after withdrawing their 25% tax-free lump-sum - which they could do before the change) can withdraw the remaining 75% in a lump sum at their marginal rate of income tax and the government (1) collects the tax sooner and (2) collects more tax than if it had been used to purchase an annuity since the marginal rate applies in the year that the income is received.

if an isa saver had used up their savings or indeed someone had no savings, the no prob getting housing or council tax award when retired. thus pension freedom can allow saver to be rewarded twice, now, income tax derral and the potential to still get housing and council tax and also even care home fees help if they spend pension before 65 or 67 and reduce it to the 10000 cash savings for assistance.

I rather suspect that the deprivation of assets rules will catch up with the changes here, if they haven't already...

And may I suggest you use a spell checker, complete words, capital letters and punctuation - that post was VERY difficult - and painful - to read and translate.

stu12345_2

forget the spelling errors, if you take pension under 10000 a year u pay no tax, such as retire early before state pension is included,eg the new take it from 55 rules as u like.
as for deprivation of savings, that is the rule once you make a claim, not what u did the years before a claim.
i asked my council officer if i enjoy my wages to the full and dont save and claim housing or council tax award is there a problem, no i was told , the same if i had used savings and now they are gone. and the flat rate pension does not stop housing or council tax awards, it only stops savings credit by forcing folk to do 35 yrs work in order to get a higher starting figure.
this figure still leaves them entitled for housing and council tax awards.

there has been comments in newspapers ive read saying my private pension reduces my housing and council tax award by 90%, what was the point, those that didnt save are laughing or those that used their savings to retire early and then claim once 65 are laughing too.

in fact if i put my savings into stock market and lost some eg dc pension, do u think council will say hey were calculating ur award based on stock market not failing, not our prob their was a drop after uve drawn it right down on a small pension before 65 or 67.
the prob lies if im i receiving an award and come into money , then how i spend it comes into question.
hence someone aged 65 getting council tax and housing benefit cashes in pension, award stops and how they spend it it observed.

not someone living of their savings or pension or wages for years from age 55 till 65.

i mean i can work, go on holiday, get a car or two during my working life even use my savings for new things anytime i want and when i retire and make a claim, noone says hey you enjoyed ur wages or savings thats not allowed. do they.

Paul_Herring

stu12345 wrote: »

forget the spelling errors,

Ignoring the fact that it's not just your spelling, if one person can't be bothered to make an effort to communicate efficiently, why should hundreds of others make an effort to try and translate what's trying to be said?

Stop being lazy, and expecting everyone else to pick up the slack.

if you take pension under 10000 a year u pay no tax, such as retire early before state pension is included,

So that means that the bulk of the pension will be there if/when claims may be made on it.

If not, then the whole exercise has had the intended effect - someone has saved for, and at least partially funded, their retirement. This is the whole point of saving for a pension.

as for deprivation of savings, that is the rule once you make a claim, not what u did the years before a claim.

If you have deliberately deprived yourself of savings, then they can indeed look to years before the claim. Even beyond the 7 years typically cited (because that's the length for inheritance tax.)

i asked my council officer if i enjoy my wages to the full and dont save and claim housing or council tax award is there a problem, no i was told , the same if i had used savings and now they are gone.
the prob lies if im i receiving an award and come into money , then how i spend it comes into question.

As indeed it should.

hence someone aged 65 getting council tax and housing benefit cashes in pension, award stops [STRIKE]and how they spend it it observed[/STRIKE].

As indeed it (the first bit at least) should. Once (if) the money runs out of course they will start getting benefits again.

not someone living of their savings or pension or wages for years from age 55 till 65.

i mean i can work, go on holiday, get a car or two during my working life even use my savings for new things anytime i want and when i retire and make a claim, noone says hey you enjoyed ur wages or savings thats not allowed. do they.

You can use your savings to buy a holiday in retirement.

What you can't do is
1) Expect the tax-payer to pay for your accommodation if you can (still) affort it yourself (the 'you have savings' bit)
2) Give away all your savings with a view to claiming poverty just to get the tax-payer to pay for your bills (the 'deliberate deprivation' bit.)

greenglide

So you plan to be poor in retirement? Well good for you. Many others expect to live a better life, so be it.

But, of course, there is no guarantee that housing benefit and council tax benefit will continue in the longer term. Housing Benefit is already under pressure "the spare room tax" and council tax benefit is going to be under severe pressure as council spending is squeezed further.

Under nSP the death knell is sounding for Pension Credit as "most" potential new claimants for whom it was designed will be expected to get the nSP at a rate which is slightly higher than the single person's minimum guarantee.

So - continue your race to the bottom, I foresee a cold, hard future in the future. Do I care? In your case, not a bit.

molerat

I would say that at the moment you could get away with it but as we move into the new state pension and auto enrolement anyone who has opted out will be considered to have made themselves intentionally poor and will get no benefits above the basic, same as quitting a job for no reason and leaving your rented accommodation without getting evicted. AFAIAA you can be denied benefits if you wilfully dispose of assets prior to making a claim.

stu12345_2

so during the short periods i was unemployed and made a claim i showed prior 3 months bank statements, they didnt want to know i went on holiday to majorca 2 years prior.
thus the 7 yr rule concerns inheritance tax, not when ur claimng jsa or housing benefit.
why do u think there has been lottery winners on housing benefit now that spent their winnings.
its only if you get a huge amount in the middle of a claim that counts, not want you did with ur wages, savings in the past when u were supporting urself.
thus dont get urself in a position where you take a large amount of funds if u are at state pension age, or indeed a small annuity after 65, cos it will backfire on you.
concerning the relevance to quitting ur job is not comparable, im stating if u didnt save and was made redundant, then no gov would ever say hey we forgot to tell you u, u must have savings, oh, and u have none, tough.until an act of parliament is in place for those that retire or made redundant, then they can exercise their legal right, and if there was an act, what do u propose to do for those on min wage making the min say 3% cont or those that work zero hours or pt time and never managed to save a large sum,
eviction is it. or jail for not being able to pay council tax.

what needs to be stated is an act that says if u fail to opt in , you wont get any benefit when u are 65 or an act that says if you spend any savings or fail to save even in a bank and enjoy ur wages then no help at 65, and those current oaps get evicted eg 2 million who rent and never had a private pension or savings.
none of these rules exist and until that time so be it. there would be unrest if folk were told hey ur oap neighbour is getting awards, but as u retire next year ur not, u spent ur wages and failed to save, ur evicted or jailed.

there will always be folk that work pt time,min wage, unemployed, disabled, zero hours contracts, that no matter how much they try save they wont be able to afford rent/council tax from 65 till they die, whats ur solution for them!!