UKPC - Private Residental Land

Umkomaas

The Deep linked it in post #3. But don't worry too much about the detail, UKPC will be more than aware of that - after all it cost them a fair wedge after the Judge had finished with them!

Use the appeal facility outlined by UKPC, otherwise it gives them the opportunity to prevaricate, and they don't need many excuses for that. But not until you receive the NtK.

You're not asking to be 'let off', you're challenging their legal right to attempt to extort money from you. You're starting to sound like a victim!

neil.net

Hi


In terms of completing my appeal form, should I just refer to the point I raised in post #9 and/ or post #15?


Thanks
Neil

Umkomaas

Whatever you write ain't gonna make much difference (other than making an error and outing the driver) - they're going to reject it and then you will need to get it cancelled via appeal (with our help) through POPLA.

The only other 'showstopper' you can attempt to employ at an earlier stage is to get an instruction from the landowner to UKPC to cancel this.

There is now a very well worn footpath to dealing with these matters, follow it and you'll get it sorted. Don't over-think things.

Gsr121

Neil
I have just experienced the exact same scenario as you with UKPC, allegedly failing to display a permit in a private residential parking area (for a block of apartments), when vehicle was parked in allocated parking space under the terms of a lease.

They've just responded apologising for the inconvenience, and have cancelled the ticket.

I waited to receive the Notice to Keeper before entering into any correspondence with them. I wrote to them, posted with a certificate of posting. Has taken them just over a month to respond. In the interim they wrote a further letter as a "final reminder"
Wording I used is as follows:

[EXTRACT]
I am the registered keeper of vehicle XXXX XXX and I am in receipt of a letter from yourself regarding a Parking Charge Notice issued on [INSERT DATE].

Firstly, please can you provide evidence that you have authority from the landowner to issue parking charge notices for the relevant parking space.

Secondly, upon investigation, I am advised that in relation to the alleged breach of parking in a permit area without displaying a valid permit, the vehicle concerned was parked with the express permission of the person who has the legal title to the parking space concerned. No loss has been suffered by the person who has the legal title to the parking space concerned.

Therefore, the vehicle was parked with the full permission necessary to occupy the space, and, on its own, the act of failing to display the permit (the alleged breach) did not lead to any loss being suffered by you (or any client that you may be acting on behalf of), compared to the vehicle being parked and displaying a permit.

Your signage at the location states “Failure to comply with the following [terms] at any time will result in a £100 Parking Charge (reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days) being issued to the vehicle’s driver”. This wording indicates that the charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract. Accordingly the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Such costs/losses can only include losses which you (or your client) would reasonably expect to incur as a result of the alleged breach i.e. allegedly failing to display a permit.

Unless you can demonstrate otherwise, for which the burden of proof rests with yourself, the £100 payment that you are seeking is an unenforceable penalty, and is not a genuine pre-estimate of your (or your client’s) losses, as no direct initial loss will have been incurred solely arising from the failure to display a permit, which is the breach you are alleging.

I therefore would request that the Parking Charge is cancelled and you notify me in writing confirming cancellation.
Yours faithfull
[END EXTRACT]

I took the wording "This wording indicates that the charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract. Accordingly the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Such costs/losses can only include losses which you (or your client) would reasonably expect to incur as a result of the alleged breach" from a successful POPLA appeal which the assessor used when finding against the parking company. You will need to check the exact wording on UKPC's signs in your parking area to see it matches in the wording in the above suggested wording.

Obviously no guarantee that this will work for you, so you probably ought to seek further advice before using it to ensure it offers the best chance of success, but hopefully the above is a basis for a letter.

neil.net

Hi, thanks for your reply.


If I may, I'll use the same wording, perhaps modified for my particular situation.


Thanks
Neil

neil.net

Hi

It's been nearly two weeks (tomorrow) that the ticket was issued, would you advise waiting for the NTK to turn up before registering an appeal? The only reason i ask is that after fourteen days the charge rises. Whilst I'm confident in my appeal, I don't want to risk an extra £40!

Thanks
Neil

bod1467

The charge doesn't rise. This has been done to death. Why pay the bribe when you'll end up paying nothing if you just take a chill pill and follow forum advice?

neil.net

Hi

Further to my previous posts, I appealed to UKPC and the appeal was rejected as in the opinion (their word) of the managing agent the lease does not grant unrestricted access - the term in the lease is "exclusive rights to..." the parking space, or any other that may be determined.

So not much more to add really, I have been doing a bit of home work on the POPLA process and the requirement of signage etc. any tips for the POLA appeal? One thing I would like clarification on is the definition of the charge. I've read in a few places that it constitutes damages for breach of contract, but some source (including the POPLA key case) suggest that it is in fact a general charge for parking/use of the car park. Any thoughts...?

Thanks again

ManxRed

neil.net wrote: »

Hi
... in the opinion (their word) of the managing agent the lease does not grant unrestricted access

- the term in the lease is "exclusive rights to..." the parking space, or any other that may be determined.

Am I being a bit thick here??!! It doesn't matter what they think, 'exclusive rights to' means YOU only. Not them, not UKPC, not anyone else.

You.

Its breach of contract. So appeal based on charge not being a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Also use the appeal point that they do not have a contract with the landholder to run a parking operation. You know this to be 100% fact, as you are the landholder.

Marktheshark

I would ask why they are running a commercial profit making business venture on your land.
Something along the terms of !!!!!! do you think you are doing on my Leasehold exactly ?
If they decided to put a Burger van on it and sell burgers would you want to know !!!!!! they were doing on your Leasehold land.