UKPC - Private Residental Land

neil.net

Hi


As the post may indicate, I've received a charge from UKPC for parking on residential land. I've read through the forum sticky threads and I am wanting to appeal etc., but have a few queries regarding my specific situation.


I got the ticket as I hadn't displayed my permit, I removed it as it includes my full property address and I didn't want this on display whilst I parked in a public car park - I forgot to put it back when I got home.


The car park for which I received the "fine" is the car park for my block of flats, I own my lease hold which includes a specific/designated parking space (in which I was parked). The terminology used is along the lines of "exclusive rights of use to the designated space, or other space that may be determined from time to time by the management company" - the management company in this instance is the actual Ltd. co set up to manage the property, as opposed to the managing agents (I appreciate however that they operate for/on behalf of the management company). No amendment was made to the lease hold, not contract was agreed to by residents regarding the parking, it was introduced in Dec 14 due to (in the main) people parking on drive ways, in front of bin stores etc., and I have raised my concerns regarding rights to the car park with the managing agents.


Also, the car park is not monitored continuously, an inspector can call at any time of day (my ticket was actually issued the day after I stopped displaying the permit). Basically this means that since residents (who understandably) could be parking all day, we are more likely to be caught out than non-residents who could be chancing it and using the car park whilst they pop to the shops for an hour. My ticket was actually issued nearly 24 hours after failing to display the permit.


Do you think the above two points are appropriate grounds for appeal based on a) the contract with UKPC is ambiguous/they may not have the right to determine who can/cannot park in my bay and b) the enforcement of the parking terms can't be fairly implemented due to non-consistent monitoring? Incidentally, there was mention of a period of grace whilst the rules came into play (from 1st Dec 2014) and I know of at least one (possibly two) residents vehicles who weren't compliant and who didn't receive charges.


I've read I could wait until the NTK is issued, but if I don't pay within 14 days without appeal the charge increases.


Thanks in advance
Neil

The_Slithy_Tove

You can appeal on those grounds if you like. It'll get rejected, but will get you a POPLA code. Your circumstances are no different from hundreds of others getting charges for parking in their own space. Just follow the usual route with the usual appeal points, as per the NEWBIES thread.

The_Deep

Why do you need a permit to park in your own space?

Does your lease mention anything about a permit? If not you can ignore it, you do not need to appeal, and, if you are so inmclined, you can take the fight to UKPC.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

You have made no contract with the PPC, neither they, nor the landowner, (in effect, yourself), have suffered a loss, and they are in fact impinging on your leasehold right to "quiet enjoyment of your property".

Write strongly to the Secretary and tell him to call this dog off, lobby your neighbours, and put notices up. The purpose of this company is to make life easier for you, not to harass you.

In the memorable words of Henry V, "kick @rse".

neil.net

The_Deep wrote: »

Why do you need a permit to park in your own space?

Does your lease mention anything about a permit?

My thoughts and feelings exactly! The lease makes no mention of a permit, only "exclusive rights to the defined space or other that may be determined from time to time" - or words to that effect.


When the idea of the permit scheme was being considered I raised a similar query with a professional forum that I'm a member of. A residential property developer suggested that if the specific bay is demised to me then all is good, but if it's a case of I have access to a parking space in general then they (managing agents) may be within their rights to impose a scheme - my lease hold seems to be a little ambiguous.


My main concern at the moment is an increase from £60 to £100 in the next 14 days.


Thanks
Neil

bod1467

neil.net wrote: »

My main concern at the moment is an increase from £60 to £100 in the next 14 days.

If you follow the normal forum advice, it goes from £60 to £0. You can ignore the reduced charge bribe.

The_Deep

My main concern at the moment is an increase from £60 to £100 in the next 14 days.

But that is a total irrelevance, you do not owe them a penny as no-one has suffered a loss. Ignore them or cost them a few quid, the choice is yours. What you must not do is take them seriously, if private parking companies were a village, they would be the idiots.

The_Slithy_Tove

neil.net wrote: »

The lease makes no mention of a permit, only "exclusive rights to the defined space or other that may be determined from time to time" - or words to that effect.

You should dig out the lease and give us the exact words. Makes all the difference as to whether it's ambiguous or not.

Half_way

You owe them £0 and that is all you will pay.

If your lease/agreement is clear and makes absolutely no mention of permits etc ( you could post it on here for others to check if your unsure - cut out any personal information )
you have a few options open to you.
As mentioned if your lease is clear.....

Lets get Popular with POPLA - Descisions made by POPLA ( and the absurdly titled IAS ) are only binding upon the parking company and not the motorist
Then as mentioned before ask yourself why you are displaying a permit to park on your property? would you agree to a permit to allow you to flush the toilet?

Here goes: hand the permit back to whoever gave it you - tell them that you disagree with the requirement to park on your own property
You may then get a ticket each time you park in your space challenge each ticket and you should get a POPLA code for each one challenge each ticket to POPLA.
This will keep whoever it is issuing tickets busy ( they may get a bonus for issuing a huge amount of tickets) and provide plenty of work for the hard up London Council employees at POPLA - win win all round.
As an added bonus why not use it for some community spirit?
if you have neighbors etc in the same situation see if they want to join the POPLA ticket leader board - who can submit the most amount of challenges to POPLA in a month - fiver in the pot and the winner gets the contents of the pot.

Community spirit enhanced - Parking attendant possibly getting a bonus or at the very least having boredom kept away, and plenty of work for the council employees in London who are subcontracted to run POPLA

neil.net

Hi the relevant terms of my lease:

"The right to exclusive use of the Parking Space shown or any other Parking Space designated from time to time by the Lessor or the Management Company as available to the Lessee for the purpose of parking a private motor vehicle

The first part suggests it is demised to me, but the second part suggests it's a more general allocation which I'm told could be an issue in terms of who has final say over my parking.

There is a proviso that states:

"The Management Comapny may impose/amend such regulations as it sees fit in line with good estate management (but so that any such regulations do not conflict with this lease)."

Thanks again
Neil

Fruitcake

neil.net wrote: »

Hi the relavnt term of my lease:

"The right to exclusive use of the Parking Space shown or any other Parking Sapce designated from time to time by the Lessor or the Management Company as available to the Lessee for the purpose of parking a private motor vehicle

The first part suggests it is demised to me, but the second part suggests it's amore general allocation which I'm told could be an issue in terms of who has final say over my parking.

There is a proviso that states:

"The Management Comapny may impose/amend such regulations as it sees fit in line with good estate management (but so that any such regulations do not conflict with this lease)."

Thanks again
Neil

So no requirement to display a permit on your own space or alternative space.

The choice is yours. Ignore unless you get real court papers, or appeal, get rejected, appeal to PoPLA, and cost the PPC money, or go on the attack with your own LBCCC.

neil.net

Hi, thanks for all the replies

If I choose to do nothing, should I write and refute the charge? I read that appealing isn't a good option as this might constitute acceptance of the terms?

Thanks again
Neil