Nursing Home Care - Having to Pay...

TheLostSheep

Hello,

First post on here and hoping someone can offer some help....

My father aged 59, unfortunately requires Nursing home care. I am 26 and my sister 31. Without going into too much detail he has an inoperable brain tumour (has had for 10 years) and due to the gradual deterioration in his condition over the years he has been in a home since December 2006. he is still ok to a degree but needs help with tablets, dressing, eating etc and 24hr supervision. We are located in SCOTLAND

Now, when it became apparent he wasnt managing, we had no option but to sell the family home having lived there himself for 3 years after our mum passed away. Other than settling up debts and reclaiming some things he was due, it seems to be the case that because he is unfortunate enough to be ill and he has assets, he has to pay for his care.! It costs a whopping £2900 a month for this Nursing Care. In terms of options we dont have the facilities and our own lives mean we can't look after him ourselves although we would like to.

We are really fed up at having to shell out all this money that he has worked hard for all his years! I am aware of the whole idea about notional capital and intentional deprevation of assets wheerby the government can claim back the value of any un-neccessary expenses at cost price. The local authority are required to start part funding his care when he only has £20k left in his account but that will be about another year-18months away.

Obviously in hinsight he should have signed everything over to us around 5-7 years ago to avoid it being claimed back.

Does anyone have any advice as to what could speed up the process of the local authority helping to pay for the care?

My sister and I have power of autoney.

Wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences.

I have found the cancer charities, local authroity pretty useless in terms of help.

bunty109

My grandmother was in a similar position. She has dementia and when assessed (this is in England btw) it was found she had category A dementia and that therefore her fees are funded. We thought we would have to use her funds to pay for her care until she hit £21k in savings, but her status with regard to her dementia now means we don't have to.

I think some of the best people to ask for advice on this would be the nursing home. If there is any circumstance under which your father's care could be subsidised/paid for, then they are in a good position to know. It's how we got my grandmother's status reviewed.

Best of luck.

TheLostSheep

Thanks for the reply...Id be interested to hear any other accounts or stories too from a Scottish background.

The whole thing that annoys me is that these Nursing Home are big business charging through the nose for what is at times basic care that isnt delivered! They pay their staff minimum wages, employ the minimum number of trained nurses and make the numbers up with care assistants. There are various bodies involved such as the local authority, macmillan support and everyone seems to think he has to fund it which is rubbish given that he is so young and has been hit by a rather unfortunate illness.

sophiesmum_2

Not sure if it is any help but everyone can make a gift of £3000 per year to someone else without it affecting any tax etc, you can also use last years allowance up if you never used it at the time.
Could be a way of reducing your dad's savings by £6000, if he were to make a gift of £3000 each to you and your sister.

Think martin included this in ways to reduce inheritance tax liability.

Also another tip that i give to the oldies I work with is to prepay funeral expenses. Sounds morbid but i have had people who were denied benefits as they were a couple of thousand over the limit with savings. (They were savingfor their funerals!) Now they have prepaid the expenses and as savings have reduced can now claim extra benefits. Just a thought!!

TheLostSheep

Is it £3000 in total that can be gifted per year or £3000 to each individual. I was aware of something like that but wasnt sure if it was capped on how many people it could be distributed among. Do you have a link to the article? Are retrospective years timebound, ie you can only go as far back as 2 years?

It is really sad that this is the way things turns out in that people who work all their days, pay taxes and save are forced to PAY whereas those that have nothing are given it for free. Thats a seperate argument though.

sophiesmum_2

As far as I recall it is £3000 per year and you can only go back one year - plus current year but it will all help get amounts down.

Also is there anything that your dad needs for himself, better for him to spend the money on himself than spend it in fees.Sure that you are seeing to everything he needs already though.

(Added a little to my last post too in case you didn't read it.)

sophiesmum_2

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/protect/inheritance-tax-planning-iht

think it was this article

ceebeeby

Just a very quick thought (sorry don't know anything about inheritance tax etc), but if you're paying 2900 for a service and it's appalling, could you not move your Dad to somewhere else that you feel does provide the service. For that amount of money, you could rent him somewhere close to you and buy in care for him (which I think would be subsidised by your local health authority). I'm not overly sure though and if this was preferable for Dad's sake (i.e his health rather than your inheritance) I'm sure someone on here would be able to give you proper advice.

Best of luck with it.

EdInvestor

Have you considered buying a long term care annuity? This is a product which you buy with an upfront lump sum ( like a pension annuity) which provides a guaranteed income for as long as your Dad lives.The income is tax free if paid to the care home.

In Scotland IIRC personal care is paid for by the state, so it might be quite cheap for you to get this top-up - ie you might not need much extra income ( in England you'd need at least 12k a year as personal care is not paid for. )

Details of care annuity here

https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/pages/index.asp

localhero

The best source of free advice is from the Citizens Advice Bureau. The local authority/care home will almost always demand money whether they are legally entitled or not.

Who's liable to pay depends on his health. 'Health care' should be free - paid for by the state. 'personal care' is what he should be paying for.

Unfortunately there are many cases where all the care fees should be met by the state but it's not. Sadly it becomes necessary to argue (often involving litigation to obtain what is rightfully yours). Most people either accept what they're told and cough up or don't have the inclination/resources to fight.

Do take advice which is impartial though before deciding what to do.

annamac1_2

After reading your thread cg81 as regards funding nursing home care in Scotland, we now find ourselves having to find whatever info we can on this, as my FIL has opted to go into a care home, as he is registered blind and just not coping anymore (with no family living in Scotland).
Can anyone just answer a few questions for me on this:
He has been awarded nursing care allowance of 149.00 p.w.
and will have to fund his board and lodgings from his own capital (27k approx). The home charges about 761.00p.w., so is the nursing care allowance in addition to this??
What will happen when his capital runs out (est. it will not last that long), will his immediate family then face a bill for the total home charges or do the Council take over some part-funding?
What steps should we take now in advance of his capital running out and should we take out Power of Attorney.
Thanks in advance.