Getting refund on a £2850 four year old electrical item?

skap7309

Ok hopefully someone can help me with this.

In November 2010 I paid £2850 for an Arcam home cinema amplifier. In the past four years I've had nothing but trouble with it and it has been returned directly to Arcam twice for repairs. A year since it last went back the same overheating problem has returned.

Now on something that expensive you would expect maybe 10 years of a fault free life. I've had enough of it now and don't want the hassle of returning it every year for the same fault. I've found the original purchase receipt and will be contacting the retailer about getting my money back.

The question is - as the manufacturer has directly repaired it twice (and still the fault continues to reappear on an annual basis) does that affect the refund claim and if so how?

mgdavid

skap7309 wrote: »

.....
Now on something that expensive you would expect maybe 10 years of a fault free life. .......

can you justify your expectation?
I'd expect the design life of modern consumer electronics to be 3 to 4 years given the rate of progress and obsolescence.
What was the standard guarantee period?
Did you buy a longer-life warranty?
On the basis of the information you've provided I'd say you have no chance.

unholyangel

OP have they admitted the item is inherently faulty?

While you wont be entitled to a full refund after 4 years, if its inherently faulty you are entitled to a remedy (being repair. replace or refund - which can be partial to take into account usage you have had of the item).

Any repair/replacement should be carried out within a reasonable time and without causing significant inconvenience.

How did you pay for it?

skap7309

On something of that value I think you'd expect it, no?
Standard guarantee period was two years.
No extended warranty.
No chance whatsoever? The six year consumer rights rule that goods must be 'fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time'?
My question was as the manufacturer themselves have repaired it twice how does this stand in regards to getting my money back.

unholyangel

mgdavid wrote: »

can you justify your expectation?
I'd expect the design life of modern consumer electronics to be 3 to 4 years given the rate of progress and obsolescence.
What was the standard guarantee period?
Did you buy a longer-life warranty?
On the basis of the information you've provided I'd say you have no chance.

Price is a factor.

Put quite simply, you wouldnt expect a £20 microwave to last as long or be as good as a £200 one.

unholyangel

skap7309 wrote: »

On something of that value I think you'd expect it, no?
Standard guarantee period was two years.
No extended warranty.
No chance whatsoever? The six year consumer rights rule that goods must be 'fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time'?
My question was as the manufacturer themselves have repaired it twice how does this stand in regards to getting my money back.

You're slightly confused. Goods must be of satisfactory quality and last a reasonable length of time. The limitations act (aka statue of limitations) on claims such as this is 6 years from purchase in england and 5 years from discovery in scotland. It does not mean that all goods should last that long.

But there is no 6 year consumer rights rule so to speak.

skap7309

Unholyangel - I assume so as they have repaired it twice, for free.
As explained, having sent it back twice I have had enough of the hassle and just want rid of it. If I paid £100 I wouldn't have worried but on something with that price tag its completely unnaceptable. I'm sure I can get a third, free repair but can guarantee It'll therefore need to go back again in 12 months.
BTW its a 30kg, large package so an absolute logistical nightmare each and every time it needs returning....
I paid via debit card so aware no credit card comeback.

wealdroam

skap7309 wrote: »

Ok hopefully someone can help me with this.

In November 2010 I paid £2850 for an Arcam home cinema amplifier. In the past four years I've had nothing but trouble with it and it has been returned directly to Arcam twice for repairs. A year since it last went back the same overheating problem has returned.

Now on something that expensive you would expect maybe 10 years of a fault free life. I've had enough of it now and don't want the hassle of returning it every year for the same fault. I've found the original purchase receipt and will be contacting the retailer about getting my money back.

The question is - as the manufacturer has directly repaired it twice (and still the fault continues to reappear on an annual basis) does that affect the refund claim and if so how?

The Sale of Goods Act says things should last a reasonable amount of time.

It also says that if an inherent fault occurs you can seek a remedy from the seller.
An inherent fault is one that was present at the time of sale but not necessarily apparent at that time.

In that case a remedy can be either a replacement, repair or refund. If a refund is decided upon in can be reduced to take account of the use you have had.

You can express a preference for a particular remedy, but you cannot insist on a disproportionate remedy.
That effectively means that the seller chooses the cheapest remedy.

Also, SoGA allows the seller to ask you to prove that the fault is inherent, and not due to misuse, fair wear and tear, for example.

Have you kept the seller informed of your dealings with the manufacturer?
If not, they may well ask for that proof.

Then will come the discussion on what four year's use of the thing is worth.
You say you would expect ten year's use but others may not agree.
Let's start by saying ten years, and let's assume linear depreciation.
Therefore you have used 40% of it's value, so a refund of around £1700 might be appropriate.

Someone else will say that these things depreciate more in the earlier years, and maybe it's expected life is only, say, eight years.
The result of this calculation might arrive at a refund value of significantly less than £1000.

Your first step is to speak to the seller, but do not set your hopes too high.

skap7309

Ok if price is a factor are you saying I have a strong case given at £2850 it is right at the top of what you would call a 'premium' product. Home cinema amps start at around £80 so you get the idea....

unholyangel

skap7309 wrote: »

Unholyangel - I assume so as they have repaired it twice, for free.
As explained, having sent it back twice I have had enough of the hassle and just want rid of it. If I paid £100 I wouldn't have worried but on something with that price tag its completely unnaceptable. I'm sure I can get a third, free repair but can guarantee It'll therefore need to go back again in 12 months.
BTW its a 30kg, large package so an absolute logistical nightmare each and every time it needs returning....
I paid via debit card so aware no credit card comeback.

Repairing it twice free doesnt really mean much though. It could be that it was covered under warranty or it could be that they just offer really good customer service.

Have you approached the retailer yet to see what they say? Some retailers will go beyond what the law says so always worthwhile at least checking their position first to see what they're willing to do - if anything.

ConsumerGuy0016

skap7309 wrote: »

Ok if price is a factor are you saying I have a strong case given at £2850 it is right at the top of what you would call a 'premium' product. Home cinema amps start at around £80 so you get the idea....

Instead of arguing about it on here why don't you approach the retailer, list out your issues, quote the relevant law and wait for an offer.

Once you receive that offer it makes sense seeking advice on whether or not that offer is reasonable. The reality is, only you can judge the offer as you've paid and had the item for a few years.