eu vatmoss from 1st jan 2015

pathtofreedom

I've tried searching the forum but can't find any threads on vatmoss, which seems very strange considering the impact to so many poeple.

I don't have a side business yet, but was considering one this year, but with how complicated the tax side will now, I'm not sure it is worth while?

How are others coping with this for things like online training, ebooks, selling patterns on etsy, wordpress plugins and web design, advertising / seo etc.

I have found the following sites so far which seem to have good info but it isn't detailed enough.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers

https://blog.etsy.com/uk/2014/12/22/european-union-value-added-tax-vatmoss/?utm_content=buffer289af&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2014/12/everything-web-designers-need-to-know-about-vatmoss/

I can see people asking on twitter to the new @hmrccustomer account with #vatmoss as well but again it seems very conflicting.

So how are people dealing with the new rules and 2 types of proof. How are you storing these and which are you choosing for example?

Are there any plugins / tools already for this or maybe I need to make my own.

System

There is already an ebay oriented thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5144233but it is applicable to all businesses

JasonLVC

HMRC previously published some additional guidance which doesn't seem to have made its way onto the "final" published guidance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revenue-and-customs-brief-46-2014-vat-rule-change-and-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop-additional-guidance/revenue-and-customs-brief-46-2014-vat-rule-change-and-the-vat-mini-one-stop-shop-additional-guidance

But for the 2 forms of evidence, basically the customers billing address and bank payment card will suffice. So, I may well be in Switzerland when I make a purchase but if I use my UK bank credit card and UK home address (which I'd have to as the merchant ill want to match address to bank card), then my purchase will be UK VAT.

The HMRC guidance suggests the payment merchant provides these details, so if you use Paypal/WorldPay or Google Pay they'll do all the work for you.

In terms of your aside business. If what you sell fall under the new rules (e-services basically), then you would need to register for VAT in the UK, but only so that you can file MOSS returns for sales made elsewhere in the EU. Your UK sales would not be subject to VAT as your turnover is below the £81k registration threshold, but sales to other EU member states is Nil threshold hence the need for a MOSS VAT registration, but no need to charge UK VAT on UK sales (ie, you ignore your UK sales for VAT purposes).


Its all a bit confusing I agree, but sort of makes sense once you get the concept.

JasonLVC

MOSS registration has been open for applications since October 2014 and has been widely publicised in the media and on HMRC's website.

If anyone does intend to make sales of e-downloads/e-services to individuals (rather than businesses), then MOSS will likely apply and so would advise speaking to a clued up book-keeper and/or an Accountant.

I doubt a bit of dabbling of EU sales for a few grand will attract any attention from HMRC, especially since the EU hasn't quite worked out how one deals with jurisdictions (ie, UK business not charging French VAT, VAT not due in UK so HMRC not bothered...how does French tax man force a UK business to comply as French law outside of UK jurisdiction), so it'll still be "fun" for a while whilst member states figure out how they are going to police this.

pathtofreedom

Thanks for that. I think it is the advice the hrmc twitter account is giving out as well is confusing me.

How do you know if you did a course made up of videos / ebooks, how much tutor time then turns that into something exempt? Does it have to be so many hours of tutor time, or can you just say access to a tutor between these hours or something or how would that work?

For sending pdf's as well it looks like if someone buys one and you don't automate the delivery then it isn't included, but if you have tools to automatically send the pdf once ordered, rather than just attach manually to a mail, then you are in scope.

For the proof what if they pay with paypal? What would you use as proof instead of the bank card then? Looking at this it doesn't look possible to get the info from them. http://www.businesszone.co.uk/topic/finances/vat-moss-how-paypal-etsy-and-others-are-preparing/58804

If you don't comply what are the penalties? As I just can't see how a lot of businesses will be able to continue right now if there aren't tools / processes in place to cope with this. Unless people refuse to sell outside of the uk but then could be loosing a lot of busines then, you'd still have to implement something to prove you only sold in the uk I guess even if you did that.