Is this gambling for children?

Sanga

My 13 year old nephew is staying with us for the week whilst his mum has an op at hospital and this morning i watched him playing on his xbox. The game is fifa which is just a football game but there is this online mode called ultimate team and i'm pretty disturbed by what i saw this morning. The whole objective of the mode is to build a team of players from all around the world. There is also a transfer market where you can sell your players for coins. You get your players from trading packs a bit like old match attack cards if you remember them.

He was buying these packs with real money at £5.49 a go in the hope of landing a big player worth millions of coins. He bought 4 of them out of his chistmas money and got nothing. To fund another pack which in coins cost 35,000 he sold all his players and got nothing in his pack and now has no team to play with. Watching him was like watching a gambler chasing a big win. It is scary to see kids having this encouraged in them.

What is even worse is i asked him how does he make coins in order to buy these packs at 35,000 coins and he said to play. You get about 600 coins for a win in a 20 minute online game, about 400 for a loss and a couple of thousand if you win the season title which consists of 10 games but the downside of playing is you have to buy player contracts which are 250 coins each and a squad fitness after 3 games which is 800 coins. There is no way of making 35,000 coins by playing so the only way to get these 'mega packs' is to buy them with real money. It is very wrong indeed. If you have kids playing this ultimate team, take a look at it. You will be shocked.

Sanga

I forgot to add they release special 100,000 coin packs in a speed round that cost £15.99, but you got to be quick or they are gone. This is not right for children. The game rating is 3+

northerntwo1

My son doesn't get coins so that element of the game doesn't appeal. None of his friends do either, they just want to build teams and win - without money. It's like all games the writers will try to get extra money but most sensible parents refuse too allow any in game purchase options so the kids don't miss them

Sanga

northerntwo1 wrote: »

My son doesn't get coins so that element of the game doesn't appeal. None of his friends do either, they just want to build teams and win - without money. It's like all games the writers will try to get extra money but most sensible parents refuse too allow any in game purchase options so the kids don't miss them

There is no option to play without coins or to open free packs in a demo mode. I'm looking at it right now. You get a starter squad which is 60 rated players. You have to buy these packs to get a team.

plumpmouse

Sanga wrote: »

My 13 year old nephew is staying with us for the week whilst his mum has an op at hospital and this morning i watched him playing on his xbox. The game is fifa which is just a football game but there is this online mode called ultimate team and i'm pretty disturbed by what i saw this morning. The whole objective of the mode is to build a team of players from all around the world. There is also a transfer market where you can sell your players for coins. You get your players from trading packs a bit like old match attack cards if you remember them.

He was buying these packs with real money at £5.49 a go in the hope of landing a big player worth millions of coins. He bought 4 of them out of his chistmas money and got nothing. To fund another pack which in coins cost 35,000 he sold all his players and got nothing in his pack and now has no team to play with. Watching him was like watching a gambler chasing a big win. It is scary to see kids having this encouraged in them.

What is even worse is i asked him how does he make coins in order to buy these packs at 35,000 coins and he said to play. You get about 600 coins for a win in a 20 minute online game, about 400 for a loss and a couple of thousand if you win the season title which consists of 10 games but the downside of playing is you have to buy player contracts which are 250 coins each and a squad fitness after 3 games which is 800 coins. There is no way of making 35,000 coins by playing so the only way to get these 'mega packs' is to buy them with real money. It is very wrong indeed. If you have kids playing this ultimate team, take a look at it. You will be shocked.

My son plays this.
To be honest I would say more fool families that let their kids spend a fortune.
My son has probably bought 2 packs when we have allowed it as a reward. He wants more but can see what a waste it is after discussing it. He has said next time he gets fifa he doesn't want the ultimate version.
I know one of his friends got £30 in fifa points to spend on these packs.

jackyann

Worrying for you Sanga, especially as this is not a good time to be rocking the boat.

I wonder though, if having begun the conversation, you can easily do a few calculations with him, just to get him thinking about risk and pleasure and how to spend money. If you keep it light-hearted & neutral it shouldn't upset him.

My grown-up kids remember a calculation I did with them about how many Panini stickers they would have to buy to complete the 1990 World Cup book, factoring in what swops were likely / unlikely.

I speak as someone who enjoys a gamble and was allowed to bet my pocket money on the horses from a young age. Seeing it as a fun thing to do with affordable amounts of money is, I think, completely responsible. Rather like learning to drink responsibly, talking openly and working out what you can afford and whether the fun you get is worth it - against what else you can spend your money on is IMHO helpful.

I hope your nephew learns from being with you, and that his mum recovers well.

Sanga

plumpmouse wrote: »

My son plays this.
To be honest I would say more fool families that let their kids spend a fortune.
My son has probably bought 2 packs when we have allowed it as a reward. He wants more but can see what a waste it is after discussing it. He has said next time he gets fifa he doesn't want the ultimate version.
I know one of his friends got £30 in fifa points to spend on these packs.

I dont think most families are aware of how ruthless this game mode is. I sure as hell know his mum would go crazy if she saw him wasting that money on a gamble to get a big player. You even said your son wants more but after discussing it he sees it as a waste. Just by him wanting more shows these packs are addictive to kids.

plumpmouse

jackyann wrote: »

I speak as someone who enjoys a gamble and was allowed to bet my pocket money on the horses from a young age. Seeing it as a fun thing to do with affordable amounts of money is, I think, completely responsible. Rather like learning to drink responsibly, talking openly and working out what you can afford and whether the fun you get is worth it - against what else you can spend your money on is IMHO helpful.

Completely agree with this. Using examples like this helps kids learn valuable lessons imho

Sanga

jackyann wrote: »

Worrying for you Sanga, especially as this is not a good time to be rocking the boat.

I wonder though, if having begun the conversation, you can easily do a few calculations with him, just to get him thinking about risk and pleasure and how to spend money. If you keep it light-hearted & neutral it shouldn't upset him.

My grown-up kids remember a calculation I did with them about how many Panini stickers they would have to buy to complete the 1990 World Cup book, factoring in what swops were likely / unlikely.

I speak as someone who enjoys a gamble and was allowed to bet my pocket money on the horses from a young age. Seeing it as a fun thing to do with affordable amounts of money is, I think, completely responsible. Rather like learning to drink responsibly, talking openly and working out what you can afford and whether the fun you get is worth it - against what else you can spend your money on is IMHO helpful.

I hope your nephew learns from being with you, and that his mum recovers well.

No point discussing it at the moment as he is moping around looking all hard done by because he has no players left to play with. He's now going cold turkey as i wont give him money to fund this addiction. I will take it up with his mum though, she needs to see how bad this mode is.

northerntwo1

Sanga wrote: »

There is no option to play without coins or to open free packs in a demo mode. I'm looking at it right now. You get a starter squad which is 60 rated players. You have to buy these packs to get a team.

No but neither my son or any of his friends buy a pack, it's made clear that it won't happen. My boy is 9 and he isn't wanting to buy a pack, he knows it's pot luck if he gets a legend and doesn't spoil the game by not purchasing any. There's no card attached so no way to buy anyway.

They earn coins by playing which is why they play. They just enjoy playing the game and the packs don't interest them.

It's like many apps who ask for in game purchases etc. it's normal now, you just need to teach children that they aren't going to get them and enjoy the game not cheat to buy lives, bombs, players, packs or anything else in game purchases give.

It's just the way games are moving forward and there are worse examples than Fifa - it may not be ideal but as parents you need to deal with it (as I said it's everywhere) and make it clear in app or in game purchases are banned. Play the games on merit not buying your way to the top.

plumpmouse

Sanga wrote: »

I dont think most families are aware of how ruthless this game mode is. I sure as hell know his mum would go crazy if she saw him wasting that money on a gamble to get a big player. You even said your son wants more but after discussing it he sees it as a waste. Just by him wanting more shows these packs are addictive to kids.

The payment comes from a credit card presumably his Mum's. I get an email if my son ever spends anything so I fail to see how parents can't know.

My son wants more but never pushes it and understands why it is a waste. It teaches him to value cash and hopefully helps to set his character for life. Unfortunately life these days is consumer driven and it is important for children to learn these lessons. Life is full of addictive things and learning when and how to say no is important.