Depression and Benefits

Nuttymut

Claire_MUFC wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Claire_MUFC wrote: »

After coming on here a few weeks ago in embarassment about going back to my GP after stopping my anti-depressants last year without their knowledge, I finally took the plunge and made an appointment to go back. I am now back on blood pressure tablets as that was 169/90, and Sertraline for my depression. Not kicked in fully yet as still feeling extremely down

To my next worry , I claimed JSA up until February of last year when I finished the Work Programme and it was time to go back to the job centre, I signed off and tried to do a bit of work fo my dad, but he cannot afford to pay me and wants me to sign back on

The whole thing is just making my depression worse as I know there is now increased pressure to get people off JSA and into work, but there are quite a few jobs I would not be comfortable in doing. My doctor has recommended counselling as they have diagnosed me with social anxiety , this combined with depression is making it extremely hard to get a job. I would actually prefer to find something part time as I feel full time at the moment would be too much

I can't even tell the job centre about my health problems as apparently you are then not entitled to claim universal credit, which is what is in my area now

Looking for a bit of advice really

Hi Claire,

I've poured out a large glass of white wine. It's a small reward as I am not at work tomorrow.

Whilst I sip on this may I chat with you please. I want you to know that you are not alone. I want you to know that you aren't well. You haven't chosen to be ill. Perhaps like many more of us you've just been unlucky.

And Claire I want you to print this post out when I've finished. I want you to take it to your Father. Then I want you to talk with him. And I want you rise up to the challenge that faces you. You don't have to do this alone neither. You are not alone.

I can speak with some knowledge of depression. I have suferred with it since I was 11. That's forty one years now.


Let There Be Light

Genesis 1:3

And God said “let there belight”. And there was light.

The Elephant Parable

It’s been heavily plagiarised but it’s probable that the elephant parable originated from the Indian Subcontinent. It has been used by the legal profession to illustrate a certain point or argument.

Five blind people are put in a room with an elephant. Each is asked to touch a certain part of the elephant.They cannot touch any other part. They are asked to describe the elephant. The first blind person who touches the tail describes the elephant as being similar to a rope. The second who touches the trunk describes it as similar to a tree branch. And so on. Each holds that their description is correct. None of them know that the elephant is a far larger creature.

In some versions of the parable a heated debate ensues as each blind person attempts to persuade the other they are wrong. It is not until they are told by a sighted person that the elephant is indeed far larger than the part they have touched that they realise the need to collaborate and embark on a plan to describe the larger beast.

Often lawyers in court cite the elephant parable as it demonstrates that all are telling the truth. However,each is looking at the subject from a totally different perspective and each cannot see past that. It is not enough to know the truth from five individuals. Far better to know the truth those five individuals have agreed upon.

We often say I can’t describe it, but I’ll know it when I see it.

If it Looks Like a Duck

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck the chances are it’s a duck.

Sometimes we simply cannot put a label on something. When we see a duck walking across a farmyard we don’t see a label on it clearly marking it as a duck. But from what we see we are able to deduce it’s a duck.

The Smoking Gun

When we see a gun that’s barrel is smoking we immediately surmise that it has just fired a bullet. In all probability that’s exactly what it has done. We haven’t seen the event. But we are witness to something the event may have caused. Of course there could be other reasons that a gun smokes. However, in all probability they are small in comparison to the conclusion that the gun has just been fired.

Inductive Reasoning

The Elephant, Duck and Smoking Gun arguments put forward a good case for something known as inductive reasoning. This differs from deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning seeks to provide strong evidence for something. It cannot provide absolute proof. It’s open to criticism and it’s not infallible.

Claire, your GP has prescribed you with an antidepressant medication because he has seen the characteristic symptoms of clinical depression. He's looking at one part of the elephant Claire. He can't see anymore than your symptoms. Indeed there are no known physical tests for clinical depression. He's required to treat your symptoms. No more and indeed no less.

Like a smoking gun he can see the classic symptoms of depression and prescribe medication that may be of some help. But what he's not telling you is that this is far from an exact science. Indeed Claire it's so far from that that it's actually more of a scattergun approach.

Your GP cannot know what has caused you clinical depression. He can't see that part of the elephant. Indeed Claire he's simply not trained to know that there's more of the elephant to see. All he's focusing upon is the tail - that's all he can see. He's blind Claire. Totally blind.

He's no more an expert in clinical depression than he is in treating cancer. He's a GP, a General Practicioner.

I hope I have grabbed your attention. I am not trying to scare you. Nope. I am trying to open your mind to the true vastness that is clinical depression and other mental health issues.

Antidepressants come in many guises. The antidepressant you have been prescribed is from a class of drugs know as SSRI's. Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors were developed by the drugs companies to try and reduce the side effects of the older class of drugs such as Tricyclics and MAOI's.

Imagine our brain is a huge computer Claire. And it's a very powerful computer at that. Instead of wiring we have something called neurons. Neurons are the brains wiring system.

Now mother nature is a devious old woman and she's put small gaps in the wiring to prevent disease using our wiring system to spread through our brain. Pretty crafty eh :-)

These gaps are known as synapses.

So, please keep up Claire, as the electrical signals pass through our brain they meet the synapse. They cannot cross this gap. So they are turned into a chemical signal. The chemical crosses the synapse and triggers an electrical impulse on the next wire.

Easy peasy lemon squeazy :-)

Except ... there's a small issue with this. Mother nature hasn't been as clever as we would like to believe. She's actually created an issue.

The chemicals that are used to transer signals across the synapse are called neurotransmitters.

These include

Dopamine
Seratonin
Noradrenalin
Histamine

Dopamine is available in such quantities in our brain that we can liken it to iron on our planet.

But seratonin isn't available in anything like this. It's the equivalent of platinum. It's so rare in our brain that we have to reuse it. Hence the term re-uptake. Once the chemical has tranferred it's signal it returns from whence it came to be used again.

And hence the class of drugs known as SSRI's. The exact action of SSRI's is really not known.

We cannot replace seratonin through our diet. By way of analogy if we were to try we would have to eat three times our own weight in turkey meat per day to come close.

Most of the seratonin in our body is actually found in the stomach.

And there's an added pressure.

Seratonin is used to make melatonin. Melatonin is made in the pineal gland and pumped in small quantities into the blood stream. When the brain detects a certain level of melatonin in our blood it begins the process of preparing us for sleep.

Melatonin in not a sleep hormone. It alerts the brain to prepare for sleep.

Now can I draw all that together Claire. You have been diagnosed with clinical depression. The cause of that depression isn't known. Your GP has prescribed you with an SSRI antidepressant because (and this is as crude as it gets) statistically he knows that seratonin is the cause of this. It's more probable than dopamine which is available in huge quantities in the brain.

Now Claire. I'm not a soothsayer. Nope :cool:

But I can tell you that you do have terrible issues with your sleep.

Now I've got your attention haven't I? How would I know that you ask?

Well if the seratonin levels in your brain are low, then the melatonin your brain can make is correspondingly low to. And melatonin alerts your brain to prepare for sleep.

Would you agree Claire that if your GP treats you for depression using an SSRI this will remove your sleep problems.

There's a huge amount of logic in all of it.

Or so it would seem.

All this adds up to one thing Claire. Even our GP whom we have every confidence in, and rightly so, isn't really aware of a great deal about clinical depression. He relies on information that is given to him. Sorry She relies on evidence that's given to her :-) Phew

But ... there's an always a but isn't there.

Your GP doesn't know if your depression is caused by a seratonin issue. They haven't anyway of knowing either.

So it's a guessing game.

And most GP's don't have time to tell you this. They have to meet their targets. They have to justify their salary. Your visit to them is one of many hundreds during each week. And they are no more able to know what is causing your depression than they are to know how to operate on a tumour they see.

Claire, I can't help you with your financial issues. Although I'd really love to. I can't help you with your depression. Although I'd really love to. I can't help you with many things. Although I'd love to.

I started my post in a quite strange way. I referred to Genesis.

We use light as signal to tell our brain when to sleep. It's the underlying basis of jet lag.

So Claire what I am about to say may not relate to you. If it does, it does.

I think you feel low and depressed in the winter months. Your worst time of year is January through to April. You also sleep well from about June (could be May) through to August).

If you do then you need to consider the following diagnosis as possibly relating to you

1 ) Seasonal Affective Disorder

2 ) Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome

Claire, I don't know what caused your depression. I care enough to let you know you are not alone.

I may or I may not be right.

I hope in some small way you accept that you're not alone. You are ill. You need help and sometimes no matter how hard we look none of us really know what that elephant really looks like.

Bless you ...

This is our fight ... this is our turf ... this is our mission. High five :-)

Nuttymut

Poppie68

Wow.... Nuttymut that's deep and all rather disturbing.... best leave the medical advice to the experts be it a GP especially the medication.

lost_for_words

Not really, I would do as much research on what ever Im prescribed..Quite a good fought out article there.

ohreally

Nuttymut wrote: »

I've poured out a large glass of white wine.

No kidding.

[Deleted User]

Claire_MUFC wrote: »

Hi,

People have recommended looking at getting on a college course working with children, as I have no problem with them, don't worry about being judged by them like I do adults. Did actually go to a primary school who did my CRB which has come back clear, poss phoning them back after New Year, to give a placement a try

I would do this next week, I wanted to say before it is nice you have identified what you would like to possibly do, I can identify similar when I cared for senior citizens and some far iller then depression, I often think it is what helped keep me bounce able at it's absolute worse

Alongside Meds maybe think about alternative therapies- do you get aches and pains? Stress balls are cheap to pick up and as they say and it's true music saves the soul and time heals

Ultimately, do you want a life on benefits?

Claire_MUFC

Deleted%20User wrote: »

I would do this next week, I wanted to say before it is nice you have identified what you would like to possibly do, I can identify similar when I cared for senior citizens and some far iller then depression, I often think it is what helped keep me bounce able at it's absolute worse

Alongside Meds maybe think about alternative therapies- do you get aches and pains? Stress balls are cheap to pick up and as they say and it's true music saves the soul and time heals

Ultimately, do you want a life on benefits?

No, I definitely do not want a life on benefits, but I need something at the moment as have no money myself at all coming in to the house

My only worry is claiming JSA or UC, I will end up being forced into a job I am not comfortable with. My depression and social anxiety means at the moment, there are very few I am comfortable in doing.

The placement in the primary school is something I would love to do, as then possibly looking at a college course, but would sign off for this

Someone said about claiming ESA of available in my area and I can get a sick note, this is something I am worried about doing due to the assessment. Not great at getting across to people how I feel, and heard alot of people with mental health illness get rejected

Nuttymut

Poppie68 wrote: »

Wow.... Nuttymut that's deep and all rather disturbing.... best leave the medical advice to the experts be it a GP especially the medication.

Hi Poppy,

Thank you for your reply. I'm not sure I would describe my post as disturbing though.

Perhaps it would be more interesting if you challenged the content of my post. May I ask why you think I am not qualified to talk about this subject please?

Nuttymut :-)

speakingofart

I've reported the post - best avoid feeding the troll!

Claire, best of luck with getting everything sorted - hopefully your JC adviser will be able to help with some volunteer work to build your confidence perhaps?

Nada666

This is the sort of thing that gives us people with depression a bad name.

A nursery or primary school is not a petting zoo. Staff are employed to support and guide the children not the other way round.

If you are well enough to work with children you are well enough to endure the horrors of rubbishy work. It is entirely possible you are not emotionally strong enough to face work - if so contact your GP. But do not think you have some sort of human right to be a fair-weather playworker. Almost everyone with lousy career prospects would like that - but that is not fair to the children (or their parents who are paying good money they can't afford).

Claire_MUFC

Nada666 wrote: »

This is the sort of thing that gives us people with depression a bad name.

A nursery or primary school is not a petting zoo. Staff are employed to support and guide the children not the other way round.

If you are well enough to work with children you are well enough to endure the horrors of rubbishy work. It is entirely possible you are not emotionally strong enough to face work - if so contact your GP. But do not think you have some sort of human right to be a fair-weather playworker. Almost everyone with lousy career prospects would like that - but that is not fair to the children (or their parents who are paying good money they can't afford).

Sorry , but I feel your comments are harsh !

I am looking primary school assistant work, as on the advice of people that know me they think this is something I would be suited too. I have tried retail, wasn't suited, unhappy customers, customer service, not something I could deal with. Now when I did a placement previously in a primary school, I was absolutely fine and tht is why it is something I would like to consider in the future once my depression is under control

So please do not say my post is the kind of thing that gives people with depression a bad name !