Intestacy Rules

Rose1988

Thanks for the response. My dad had not named anyone at all, nor did he have a next of kin on file at work.

His boss has noted to hr that I was informed by the police that I was my dads next of kin and daughter and was happy to record this is on file in order for me to receive any payments that may be due

Savvy_Sue

Then wait and see if you actually receive anything which resembles legal action.

As I see it, if your grandmother wasn't named but you and your grandfather were, then she has no grounds for action. If no-one was named, she has no grounds for action.

Ignore and block phone calls, wait for letters.

BobQ

Rose I agree calm down and try not to worry.

http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/10697/pcsps-iii-0312.pdf

These are the Nuvos Scheme Rules Paragraph F11 specifies the situation.This states:

F.11 Death of a member: lump sum benefit
(1) If a member dies before reaching the age of 75, the Minister may pay a
lump sum to—
(a) the person or persons nominated by the member in accordance
with rule F.17,
(b) the member’s personal representatives, or
(c) both the person or persons so nominated and the member’s
personal representatives.
(2) If the Minister decides to pay all or part of the lump sum to persons so
nominated and more than one individual has been so nominated
then—
Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme Section III Part F
PCSPS.III.F 14 22 October 2007
(a) the payment is to be made to them in such proportions as the
member has specified in the nomination, or
(b) if no proportions are so specified, in such proportions as the
Minister considers appropriate.
(3) If the Minister decides to pay the lump sum to the person or persons so
nominated and to the personal representatives, the payment is to be
made to them in such proportions as he considers appropriate.

The nomination form for the PCSPS enables you to specify more than one nominee. So the person could complete a nomination form saying Person A 10% Person B 90% or any other %. They could even nominate a % for an organisation (eg a charity). If there is no % then the PCSPS trustees will assume equal shares for those named.

As I recall you have not yet confirmed if there was a completed nomination form. If there is then the Trustees will most likely follow that advice (and it is advice from the pension holder not a mandate).

If there is no nomination the Trustees will decide who the Personal Representative is but it is usually defined as:

Personal representative is the person
who has the power to dispose of the
deceased member’s estate. This can be
more than one person. If the member
left a will when they died, the personal
representative will be the executor(s). If
the member died without leaving a will,
the personal representative(s) will be
named in the Letters of Administration
(Confi rmation of Executor in Scotland)
which your solicitor will apply for.

This is from the glossary of booklet:

http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/94842/nbdis_sep2014.pdf

In this case, without a Will, someone has to apply for Letters of Administration. There are strict rules on who can do this:

If there is no valid will, and you are the next-of-kin, you can apply to be an administrator in the following order of priority:
1.you are the married partner or civil partner of the person who has died
2.you are the child of the person who has died
3.you are the grandchild of the person who has died
4.you are the parent of the person who has died
5.you are the brother or sister of the person who has died
6.you are the nephew or niece of the person who has died
7.you are another relative of the person who has died.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_w/relationships_death_and_wills_e/dealing_with_the_financial_affairs_of_someone_who_has_died.htm#probate

So the PCSPS Trustees may insist that given the dispute Letters of Administration are required. Or they may look at the rules and conclude that 2 above applies and pay the money to you without them. Either way 4 does not have priority to be the administrator over you and if you are paid the money as the Administrator (rather than the nominee) you have to pay a share to any of his children who can prove they are his child.

In short you do not need to prove you are entitled to a share of the money as such.
You are either nominated or not (Trustees decide).
You and any other child have equal preference to be Administrator. You just need to prove you are his child, and would inherit all or a share if there was no Will.nThe other daughter may need evidence too that she is his daughter.

Your GM has no say in the matter. It is the Pension Trustees that must decide (a) if there is a valid nomination form (b) who it nominates (c) whether they will pay the money to the nominees (d) if there is no nomination form, who they recognise as the PR. IT is their decision. Regarding (d) they will determine if it is the Administrator and who that is. But it is NOT your GM, nor your father, all the time you are alive.

That is my take on it, but I think you should get legal advice.

If your GM is correct that you are both nominated, then the Pension Trustees will probably pay a cheque for half the sum to each of you. However, even if the nomination form exists, unless it was registered with MyCSP I do not believe they will consider it valid. Either way it is their decision.

As I advised before, the best thing to do is register your interest with MyCSP and await the decision. I do not know what action your GM could contemplate until they make a decision. Unless you know otherwise, I think that you may find that she has no serious plan beyond a threat. I would apply for Letters of Administration to resolve the matter.

Hope this helps.

Is there any possibility that he did leave a Will that GM has?

It would be so much easier if all concerned could talk about this since if I read your post correctly GM does not disagree that you are entitled to 50% at least.

BobQ

Rose1988 wrote: »

Thanks for the response. My dad had not named anyone at all, nor did he have a next of kin on file at work.

His boss has noted to hr that I was informed by the police that I was my dads next of kin and daughter and was happy to record this is on file in order for me to receive any payments that may be due

Rose, whether or not he had a NoK on file at work is irrelevant. NoK has no legal status. It just means that if (say) he had had a heart attack at work, who would he want to be informed of it. It could be a friend for example.

The nomination form is what matters (see link). It is not kept at work, it is sent to MyCSP. Unless someone witnessed it and posted it for him they could not know what it contains. Even his employer may not know.

http://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/94837/db1-o-nov-2012.pdf

Savvy_Sue

Going back to the other daughter, who you said was in another country: is this the same country as your grandfather lives in? If so, would he know anything about her?

I'm just thinking it sounds as if you want to avoid contact with grandmother as far as possible!

Rose1988

Hi all,

My dad did not complete a nomination form. His employer had already forwarded my details to my CSP so I don't have to contact them. His father was never listed as next of kin, it was just an excuse that was created because I believe she feels of his dad was a next of kin, she could get the money on his behalf. I will hold tight and wait, I think I just feel worried because I don't understand how things even got to this.
She's not contacting me directly because I am ignoring all contact, she's getting family members who have no idea what's going on involved and they are contacting me telling me what they heard and are asking what is going on.

Crabapple

The legalities here are very clear. A child of the deceased (you) is entitled to take out a Grant in priority to a parent. So you are certainly the right person to be talking to his employer to find out about any payments due.

Under the intestacy rules a child/children inherit in these circumstances. Parents only receive money if there is no spouse and no children.

You are doing the right thing. It is not up to you who the Pension trustees pay out to but in this situation they are most likely to follow the intestacy rules and pay to you as his child.

As hard as it may be, try to ignore these random pieces of information from your grandmother. She doesn't have any grounds to claim against you for dealing with matters - you have the authority and she doesn't.

I would as far as possible (and how nice you are might depend on how much you care about a future relationship with these relatives) tell those contacting you for information to butt out.

Rose1988

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Going back to the other daughter, who you said was in another country: is this the same country as your grandfather lives in? If so, would he know anything about her?

I'm just thinking it sounds as if you want to avoid contact with grandmother as far as possible!

Sorry I missed your question.

This girl and my grandfather are in two different countries. My dad went and lived in a country for a short amount of time and shortly after he left, the girl was born, my dad was contacted and told that he was the father of said girl.

Apparently, my Grandfather met her for the first time in May 2014. She is 23 years old. He has only ever known about me until May

I will listen to you all and just keep away from any type of calls relating to the matter and wait until Monday and take advice from a solicitor.

BobQ

Rose,

I am glad that you have established for certain there is no nomination form. So leave it to the Trustees.

It sounds like GM is just making trouble and causing you stress.

It is good that you have faith in DWP to deal with MyCSP. I would just caution you that MyCSP are in a bit of a state at present. See:

http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2014/dec/22/civil-service-pensions-fiasco-mycsp-christmas

Mojisola

Rose1988 wrote: »

This girl and my grandfather are in two different countries. My dad went and lived in a country for a short amount of time and shortly after he left, the girl was born, my dad was contacted and told that he was the father of said girl.

She will need some kind of evidence to prove she is his daughter before she can claim an inheritance.