Intestacy Rules

Rose1988

Hi all,

I have a issue that I would like to seek advice on.

My dad passed away on 10th of this month. He had no will and he was not married and had no civil partner. Now since my dad died, his family have not gotten in touch with me to find out how I am and if I need any assistance with funeral arrangements or how I am doing generally.

They have now started a battle with me to claim his council house and have insulted me for handing it back to the housing association. Now apparently my dad has another daughter in another country. So all I can go by is what family have told me.

I do know that intestacy rules state that if there is no civil partner/widow, the money is distributed amongst the living children subject to any IHT due. My dad did not have any savings, he has quite a few small loans (payday loans) and his last salary which was about £700.

Apparently I may be due a bereavement payment from his employer (DWP) but I am not sure because I haven't really looked into this.

My question is, with this girl; do I have to prove she is my dad's daughter or take his family's word for it? I just don't know what to do here...it awkward and i'm really annoyed I'm having to think about this now

System

Sorry for your loss

First thing to do is to ascertain whether there is anything left to inherit after the funeral costs and other debts are paid out of the estate.

Although this may sound harsh, if there is nothing to inherit then to save yourself a lot of grief from his family and maybe other possible creditors and walk away from dealing with the estate.

Mojisola

Rose1988 wrote: »

My dad passed away on 10th of this month. He had no will and he was not married and had no civil partner.

I do know that intestacy rules state that if there is no civil partner/widow, the money is distributed amongst the living children subject to any IHT due. My dad did not have any savings, he has quite a few small loans (payday loans) and his last salary which was about £700.

My question is, with this girl; do I have to prove she is my dad's daughter or take his family's word for it? I just don't know what to do here...it awkward and i'm really annoyed I'm having to think about this now

She will have to prove that she is his daughter if she wants a share of what he has left. It could prove more expensive than anything she's likely to inherit if his estate is as small as you say.

If there are any children who died before him but left grandchildren, the grandchildren would inherit their parent's share, divided equally between them.

Rose1988

Thanks all.

He has no other living children unless others jump out of the woodworks now that he had passed away.

With his small debts, the companies just wiped the debts once I informed them of his death. So I am sitting here wondering if I should just get letters of administration in order to receive his death in service so his family do not challenge me but I am also aware of the massive paperwork that is connected to filing for letters of administration and of course it may not be worth it if them amount is not a lot.

I have been informed that it may be around £5,000 so I don't know if its best to receive the monies, keep it into a savings account for a while incase I am challenged in the future but I like the sound of walking away from the estate so if his family take any money and she really is his daughter, she can challenge them and I will have nothing to do with it.

I never did imagine how much there was to deal with when a person passes away. It feels like torture

System

Depending on the employer scheme, it may well be that all that is required is a death certificate to get payout to a named beneficiary and letters of administration will not be required. It will possibly be classed as not forming part of the estate but you will need to check.

BobQ

Rose1988 wrote: »

Thanks all.

He has no other living children unless others jump out of the woodworks now that he had passed away.

With his small debts, the companies just wiped the debts once I informed them of his death. So I am sitting here wondering if I should just get letters of administration in order to receive his death in service so his family do not challenge me but I am also aware of the massive paperwork that is connected to filing for letters of administration and of course it may not be worth it if them amount is not a lot.

I have been informed that it may be around £5,000 so I don't know if its best to receive the monies, keep it into a savings account for a while incase I am challenged in the future but I like the sound of walking away from the estate so if his family take any money and she really is his daughter, she can challenge them and I will have nothing to do with it.

I never did imagine how much there was to deal with when a person passes away. It feels like torture

A Death in Service payment is not from the DWP as such but is from the Civil Service Pension Scheme. How long has he been in the Civil Service? Which Scheme? Either way the payment is likely to be a multiple of his current salary. If say he earned £26K and was in Classic it would be twice this so not a trivial sum. That said, as with any pension payment, the beneficiary depends on the trustees and is not necessarily part of his estate. They may pay it to a named beneficiary (by him having completed a nomination form), the obvious NoK, or if they are uncertain to the estate. .

You say "his family"? If he had a common law wife might he have completed a nomination form in her favour? He may have nominated you of course.

Why not ask the family who this daughter is? A name, a place of birth, an address. If they decline I would ignore the possibility for the time being.

If you receive a significant sum from the pension and it is paid to the estate, you should at least advertise to find out if there is a daughter (say in the London Gazette). If it is paid to you directly as NoK, consider whether you want to get involved in dealing with his estate at all as there seem to be no other money.

Re the family, you do seem to have been a little quick to offer up the house without consulting them. There will be rules as to whether they can take on the tenancy and you may have affected this. I assume it is their home after all.

McKneff

I get the impression that father lived in the council house alone, so the OP did exactly the correct thing.


It is probably in the terms and conditions of the tenancy that it would have to be handed back unless someone who actually lived with the tenant wanted to rent it.


But the way the OP has done it is entitling another family who are probably on a long waiting listto a council house. Which is as it should be.


The family have a damned cheek in my opinion complaining about it.


Im sorry for your loss OP.

Rose1988

Thanks all for your honest comments and condolences.

My dad did not talk to his mum and brothers in the UK. He had not spoken to his mum in 7 years and if it came down to it, I have emails to show that he did not want any communications with her at all.

His brothers here used to use him and he cut them out. It was to a point where they would come to his house and he would deliberately not open the door to them so the fact that they are trying to claim his house sickens me if I am being honest. If they were close, I could understand this and seek options to see if they could take over the tenancy. My dad was indeed under a housing association. He lived alone and was married briefly and divorced around 10 years ago. I even tried to contact his ex wife just to make sure that there was no will etc but she has not even been interested in the fact he's dead (i guess she is not obliged to be interested).

His two brothers live with their mother in a 5 bedroom house so they are in no need to be rehoused.

My dad had worked for DWP for 6 years and I am not sure what Pension Scheme he was on as I have not looked into it. All I remember is his boss saying there would most probably be a bereavement payment that would cover my dad's repatriation so I did not think it would be that much.

Funny you mention the nomination forms as I saw them on his desk at home but it looks like he had the intention of filling them out but did not get round to it.

I have tried to explain to his family here, being next of kin does not mean I will keep all the money he had, if he had any plans of distributing the money in a certain way, I would make sure that his wishes are carried out, but the fact is, he didn't leave a will and he didn't talk to his family here so I know he wouldn't have left the money to them. If anything, I feel he would have wanted the money to go to his dad who is overseas and assuming this girl is his child, he would have most probably split it between me & her too.

They have given me the girls name and her place of birth and apparently my dad was told the child was his and accepted her as such, and if this is the case, the fact he accepted her is enough for me but I have no details of contacting her despite asking for them over and over again.

I just feel like the family have been quick to talk about money and materialistic things they can claim but no one has focused on the facts right now such as the fact they have left me to fork the bill for his service and repatriation and I am 21 weeks pregnant and dealing with this all alone but they are already trying to claim what may or may not be there.

Crabapple

I think you need to forget keeping the family here informed, it is none of their business and they are entitled to nothing.

Speak to DWP again and ask about the death benefit and if there is any death in service payment due. In the absence of any instructions from the deceased person (so the nomination forms) they will usually pay out to the next of kin which would be you.

There is the issue of the potential other daughter. If your father accepted she was his child it seems rather strange that he never mentioned her to you. Unless they can provide you with contact information, or pass yours to her, then there is little you can do about that. For the time being at least you can claim any money and keep half aside. Advertising for her may be the way forward but unless she can prove she is your father's child (by way of birth certificate or dna) then she would not be able to claim the money anyway.

Mojisola

Rose1988 wrote: »

they have left me to fork the bill for his service and repatriation

These are bills that should be paid from whatever money he left behind. If you pay upfront to get things going, make sure you reclaim from the estate.

BobQ

OP,

I hope all works out for you.

As he lived alone, you are right to do as you have done with the HA and the tenancy rules would probably have required it anyway.

It seems that he joined the pension in 2008 so will probably be in the Nuvos scheme.

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/NPS_1_V2.pdf

Death Benefit will be twice pensionable pay in the final year.

Did he have any other pensions from previous employment? If you are not sure you can trace UK ones (Google pension tracing).

You may find they just pay it to you as NoK (Para 54 in the above link) outside of the estate, in which case as you say, hang on to half of it until you are clear if this person exists or not. You could obtain a copy of a birth certificate from the country concerned.