Missing PCN?

[Deleted User]

To be honest - coupon-mad, I have, as you can see, got myself into a 'situation', if you could PM me with advice - I would really appreciate it - I could give you the full story there. Though I realise this is your time.

Coupon-mad

I have pm's disabled right now, partly because it's Christmas and partly due to being involved (as already declared on here) with starting up a firm which offers a private parking appeals service. So too busy for pm's as well right now!

But I am very active on here, posted about twenty replies last night at silly o'clock! Also lots of other regulars know the implications of naming the driver so it's not just me by any means who can explain why this IS an option where they were POSTAL PCNS only (in other words, ones where the driver was never apparently served with a windscreen ticket). Naming the driver for postal PCNs, is also stated as an option in the NEWBIES thread where I talk about 'resetting the clock' (our term). BUT:

- we know Excel DO NOT reissue a PCN to drivers, they pretend it's too late to name the driver - but it's not, if you read Schedule 4 the driver can be named 'before an operator commences proceedings' (i.e. before actual court papers, not a LBC).

- if you do name the driver(s) then you can no longer argue the NTKs are not compliant (I have never seen an Excel one which fails to mention POPLA or at least a sentence about 'independent appeal' on the back, which would be OK).

- but if you name the driver(s) and then Excel issue court papers to you as keeper, you can certainly argue that you are simply not liable for these amounts as you discharged any liability and named the driver(s) before action commenced!

- if Excel then try to issue a LBC to the drivers, they then say 'I may well have been driving but you haven't given me enough details/dates and information to make an informed decision. You have never sent me a PCN and never offered me any appeal so I have complained to the BPA.

- you do not have to name the driver for all of them of course. If one NTK arrived after day 15 (and it's not day 14!) then - as long as it was an ANPR version, no windscreen ticket - that one would be perfectly SAFE to defend in court as keeper - especially if the date on the postal PCN made it obvious it really was sent too late. Easy to argue 'no keeper liability as the NTK was as a fact of law, served too late' to even the most disapproving Judge! As long as he didn't assume you were driving...small claims being a lottery.

- you do not 'have to' name the driver at all of course, I am just explaining how it discharges the keeper's potential liability and stops Excel in its tracks.

- and if any of them are for the stated contravention 'failure to display a P&D ticket' then as the Parking Prankster has pointed out in his blogs about the Peel Centre, their signs do not even create that as a contractual matter from which a PCN can arise! The wording isn't there on the signage to support it.

However you respond to the LBC, do consult zzzLazyDaisy's thread (she's a retired Solicitor) which is called 'LBCCC Fightback' in Crabman's parking sticky threads near the top of this forum.

[Deleted User]

Thank you Coupon Mad,

Yes, naming the driver would be awkward for me...

So, I will, I think battle this out as the Keeper.

Yes, one PCN offense date is 18/5 with the issue date of the PCN not being until the 12th of the 6th - so clearly outside the 14 days.

ALL of them have, as the contravention: "Parked without displaying a valid ticket / permit"... I'll go and find info on the Pranksters blog. Thanks again...

Coupon-mad

If you Google 'parking prankster peel centre' you will find all his Blogs about that place in one hit, listed as the results. He explains about the signage in at least one blog (and I can vouch for him, as he is already declared on here as being another Director of the firm I mentioned that I am part of!). We all sing from the same hymnsheet, there are several of us involved, actively fighting the PPC scam generally, not just keyboard warriors as the PPCs might think.

[Deleted User]

How does one 'hire' you or the parking prankster to fight?? Oh, and yes - found it, Stockport Court Case.

Coupon-mad

Look at the Parking Cowboys website or the BMPA website or directly, as you have asked, MSE have told me I am allowed to answer and tell you we are [TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM] (you add the www)! We do appeals/POPLA and court defences mainly.