Missing PCN?

[Deleted User]

Dear forum members,

you don't know me, but I have been using this forum for a while now to fight an action started by Excel parking company. So far several letters have been exchanged, I have asked for information from them on several occasions, the usual stuff, like proof this is a genuine pre estimate of loss, proof they have the right to act for the land owner, blah blah, blah. The only thing they HAVE sent me are copies of the very many PCNs sent. HOWEVER, and this is where I get to my question...

All the PCNs are aimed at me, the registered keeper, using the Freedom of Information Act... however NONE of them contain all the info required by that act... therefore am I going to be able to laugh in court since they have no leg to stand on? Also... one PCN is missing - they say they can't find it... do they NEED to have that PCN, or can I tell the court that that PCN must be discounted from the start since it cannot be proved to have existed?

Also, they now tell me in a letter that they will not respond to any further correspondence? Can they do that?

Thanks! Redwine

Umkomaas

Have they issued court papers?

[Deleted User]

No, only a badly written letter before claim. I have asked for a POPLA code to get it out of the way, but they said they wouldn't as outside of THEIR time period!

Umkomaas

redwinematthew wrote: »

No, only a badly written letter before claim. I have asked for a POPLA code to get it out of the way, but they said they wouldn't as outside of THEIR time period!

1. If this is a LBCCC (even badly written) you need to take it seriously and follow the advice of zzLazyDaisy in her sticky (part of Crabman's collation) near the top of the forum index, one page back from here.

2. Complain to the BPA and DVLA (both contact addresses/emails in post #6 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky) - send copies of all correspondence you've exchanged with the PPC in trying to extract a POPLA code (which you shouldn't have to do). And by the way, there is no time limit on being issued with a POPLA code, only the silly rules devised by PPCs to frustrate the motorist in getting one.

[Deleted User]

Hi, yes, I have used the advice and have challenged them on various points - but they have refused to give me answers and now say they will not correspond again. My questions though are:

1. None of their original PCNs fulfilled the 2012 code - ie one was sent after the 14 days, three do not mention who the creditor is, etc. This mean, presumably, they can';t persue me as keeper and it would be thrown out of court yes?

2. They cannot provide me with a copy of the first PCN... which I don't have. Can they even take me to court for that one?

These are the main questions I'd like answering if possible. Thanks in advance. Redwine.

Umkomaas

How many separate parking charges are Excel pursuing you for?

[Deleted User]

6 in total.

[Deleted User]

Which comes to about £600... lol. However, I think the fact that their PCNs do not contain the correct info SHOULD invalidate any claim they have on me as the RK... is that correct?

Umkomaas

redwinematthew wrote: »

Which comes to about £600... lol. However, I think the fact that their PCNs do not contain the correct info SHOULD invalidate any claim they have on me as the RK... is that correct?

Technically, yes, as long as you can correctly and accurately argue the case against each and every one. So you'll need to display a better knowledge than you appear to have here in terms of 'do not display the correct information' and be able to argue this - technically and intellectually. But the Small Claims Court is an absolute lottery ((Russian Roulette with 3 chambers loaded), and SCC Judges have a great deal of discretion in how they determine cases.

And with potentially 6 separate cases loaded against you, whilst I'm not one of the forum's 'experts' in court procedures and processes, I'm far from convinced of your potential to defend 600 notes-worth (plus!) successfully. You seem ripe for the pickin'.

Excel, whilst not one of PPC world's most litigious operators, do chance their arm at court - see the last available 18-month record of all PPCs in pursuing county court actions - here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/322893/british-parking-association.doc

You might want to await further comments from other regulars (particularly those with a better handle on court cases than me), but in your shoes I might be working on a strategy of trying to settle things with Excel before it gets to the court stage!

Coupon-mad

It's not the 'Freedom of Information Act' so I am already a bit worried about your eye for detail and ability to argue these in small claims. I too think you are ripe for them to pick you off as a victim. Not only that, Judges are NOT familiar with the POFA Schedule 4 so it would be down to you to explain why the NTKs are not compliant (and a Judge may dismiss it as unimportant and just find in favour of Excel anyway on the assumption you were probably the driver). Small claims can be a lottery and an ill-prepared defendant is more likely to be laughed at by a stuck up Judge, than Excel.

What happened when you complained to the retail park in question, if you were a regular customer? DO IT NOW, TO THE HEAD OFFICE OF A RETAILER AND TO THE RETAIL PARK LANDOWNER/MANAGING AGENT (easily Googled). It is NEVER too late to complain as long as court papers have not been served - so complain!

Why did you ignore the Notices?

Was this the Peel Centre?

What were the dates of these various contraventions (approx.)?

IF THESE WERE ALL POSTAL PCNS FOR AN OVERSTAY OR NOT DISPLAYING A TICKET (as opposed to windscreen PCNs) have you thought about naming the drivers as someone else, giving their full name and address (remember it wasn't the keeper who was driving was it? Was it? Oh no it wasn't!). That way the keeper discharges any liability and the driver gets their own PCN if Excel can be bothered (if they can't then they are somewhat stuck!).

[Deleted User]

Good Morning, and thanks for the replies.

My posts were rattled off - I would be more careful in a court scenario. As to whether I could defend each of these tickets... hmnnn... My main point would be POFA schedule 4. One PCN is totally missing, one was sent after the 14 day window, two do not mention who the creditor is, one is missing the information regarding the 28 day window of opportunity regarding naming the driver, none of them contain information for appeals, etc. Surely a judge cannot dismiss what is LAW according to schedule 4?

However, beyond that all my other points are the usual - not a genuine pre-estimate of loss for trespass, no contract, etc.

But I would like this ended before court.

So, to your specific questions: it might very well have been the Peel Centre, I did not 'ignore' the PCNs, I simply never read them in the first place (foolishly? I was going on pre 2012 advice), the tickets are for dates between Oct 13 and Oct 14.

Yes, they are postal PCNs - naming the driver? Aren't there certain issues with doing this if you get my meaning?