Possession Order / Evicting a joint owner - desperate for some advice please!

ALS99

Hello, thank you for taking the time to read (and hopefully offer some advice).

My ex partner and I own a property, joint owners both on the deeds. We separated over two years ago and agreed it should be sold and both moved out and rented elsewhere. I spent the next 3 months redecorating and making improvements and repairs preparing for sale, when it was completed she moved back in and said she was staying there and wouldn't sell. I made an application to Court under ToLATA and eventually (over a year and numerous Court hearings later) at the final hearing the Judge awarded me the Order for Sale that I had been seeking, the Court Order stated the property should be marketed immediately. My ex was still living at the property and refused to comply with the order, refused to allow Estate Agents access and made marketing/sale impossible.

I finally got another Court hearing last week at which hearing the Judge said it was clear my ex wouldn't comply and would make sale impossible so she made a Possession Order stating my ex must give me possession of the property - with 14 days notice. This date is now in 8 days time. I have also been given full sole control of the sale so I do not need her co operation at all to get it marketed and sold. I am keen to sell as soon as I can as the current local market is favourable and my ex is only paying the mortgage on alternate months so has already accumulated nearly £3000 of mortgage arrears.

I have done all this by myself, no solicitor and no legal advice, just what I have found from hours on online research. I cannot afford a solicitor or legal advice, our two children live with me in rented accommodation and the stress and financial pressure this whole fiasco has caused me is beyond words. I just want it sold and to be able to move on.

So, she has said she will not comply with the Possession Order and will not move out. I want to do things legally and without opening myself up to false allegations from her as they could cost me my job, but I also don't have lots of money or time. I have been told the local Court have a 2-3 month wait for the County Court Bailiffs to carry out eviction and I have looked and seen that HCEO eviction will be quicker (even allowing for time to request permission to transfer up and actually transfer up) but is likely to cost a fair bit more. I simply do not have the money to do this. I know my situation isn't landlord/tenant as she is joint ownerso she doesn't have a tenancy agreement and there is no written agreement or Court Order that states she can reside there, quite the opposite in fact due to the possession Order.

I have some questions which I don't seem to be able to find the answers to online and I would be really grateful i f anyone reading can offer any advice regarding any of them.

1. Do I have to instruct Bailiffs/HCEO's to evict her if she is still there on the date stated on the Possession Order that she must leave by or can I do this myself? I know I can't force her to leave the property physically if she is there but is there any reason that I can't just wait until she goes to work, get a locksmith to force entry and change the locks so she can't get back in? Is this an illegal eviction or is illegal eviction only relevant without a possession order or if someone has a tenancy agreement? I would much prefer to do this as it would be much cheaper, just he cost of the locksmith.

2. The property has a garage which is accessible from the street and she has a key, I was thinking I could move all her furniture and possessions in there during the day and lock it so she would not be deprived access to her belongings. Is this reasonable/legal?

3. If I have to pay for an eviction through CC Bailiffs or HCEO and other costs of entry such as a locksmith, can I claim these costs back from her? The only thing I can think of doing is to make her aware beforehand that should this be necessary I will claim costs back and then subsequently apply to the small claims court. Is that an option?

4. I understand a money Judgement for rent arrears can be enforced by HCEO's at the same time as eviction. I have a money Judgement with the same Court reference number as the Possession Order due to my ex being ordered to pay my costs of application to date regarding the property. This has already been transferred up to the High Court and with the HCEO's. If I instruct the HCEO's to do the eviction can they also enforce this money Judgement relating to the property.

Thank you in advance to anyone knowledgeable in these matters who can help and any advice that I may not have asked for or thought of would be appreciated too!

SL

HappyMJ

You've done quite well to get that far. I'd go the HCEO route. I wouldn't want to wait months you are needing days not months. Yes it will cost more money but in my opinion it looks like money well spent. You can claim the costs back from her due to her non compliance.

45002

For Reference http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/search.php?searchid=158825515

ALS99 wrote:

Hello, thank you for taking the time to read (and hopefully offer some advice).

My ex partner and I own a property, joint owners both on the deeds. We separated over two years ago and agreed it should be sold and both moved out and rented elsewhere. I spent the next 3 months redecorating and making improvements and repairs preparing for sale, when it was completed she moved back in and said she was staying there and wouldn't sell. I made an application to Court under ToLATA and eventually (over a year and numerous Court hearings later) at the final hearing the Judge awarded me the Order for Sale that I had been seeking, the Court Order stated the property should be marketed immediately. My ex was still living at the property and refused to comply with the order, refused to allow Estate Agents access and made marketing/sale impossible.

I finally got another Court hearing last week at which hearing the Judge said it was clear my ex wouldn't comply and would make sale impossible so she made a Possession Order stating my ex must give me possession of the property - with 14 days notice. This date is now in 8 days time. I have also been given full sole control of the sale so I do not need her co operation at all to get it marketed and sold. I am keen to sell as soon as I can as the current local market is favourable and my ex is only paying the mortgage on alternate months so has already accumulated nearly £3000 of mortgage arrears.

I have done all this by myself, no solicitor and no legal advice, just what I have found from hours on online research. I cannot afford a solicitor or legal advice, our two children live with me in rented accommodation and the stress and financial pressure this whole fiasco has caused me is beyond words. I just want it sold and to be able to move on.

So, she has said she will not comply with the Possession Order and will not move out. I want to do things legally and without opening myself up to false allegations from her as they could cost me my job, but I also don't have lots of money or time. I have been told the local Court have a 2-3 month wait for the County Court Bailiffs to carry out eviction and I have looked and seen that HCEO eviction will be quicker (even allowing for time to request permission to transfer up and actually transfer up) but is likely to cost a fair bit more. I simply do not have the money to do this. I know my situation isn't landlord/tenant as she is joint ownerso she doesn't have a tenancy agreement and there is no written agreement or Court Order that states she can reside there, quite the opposite in fact due to the possession Order.

I have some questions which I don't seem to be able to find the answers to online and I would be really grateful i f anyone reading can offer any advice regarding any of them.

1. Do I have to instruct Bailiffs/HCEO's to evict her if she is still there on the date stated on the Possession Order that she must leave by or can I do this myself? I know I can't force her to leave the property physically if she is there but is there any reason that I can't just wait until she goes to work, get a locksmith to force entry and change the locks so she can't get back in? Is this an illegal eviction or is illegal eviction only relevant without a possession order or if someone has a tenancy agreement? I would much prefer to do this as it would be much cheaper, just he cost of the locksmith.

2. The property has a garage which is accessible from the street and she has a key, I was thinking I could move all her furniture and possessions in there during the day and lock it so she would not be deprived access to her belongings. Is this reasonable/legal?

3. If I have to pay for an eviction through CC Bailiffs or HCEO and other costs of entry such as a locksmith, can I claim these costs back from her? The only thing I can think of doing is to make her aware beforehand that should this be necessary I will claim costs back and then subsequently apply to the small claims court. Is that an option?

4. I understand a money Judgement for rent arrears can be enforced by HCEO's at the same time as eviction. I have a money Judgement with the same Court reference number as the Possession Order due to my ex being ordered to pay my costs of application to date regarding the property. This has already been transferred up to the High Court and with the HCEO's. If I instruct the HCEO's to do the eviction can they also enforce this money Judgement relating to the property.

Thank you in advance to anyone knowledgeable in these matters who can help and any advice that I may not have asked for or thought of would be appreciated too!

SL

For Reference http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?65800-Possession-Order-Evicting-a-joint-owner-desperate-for-some-advice-please!

G_M

You need expert advice legal advice. Mine is neither. But:

ALS99 wrote: »

1. Do I have to instruct Bailiffs/HCEO's to evict her if she is still there on the date stated on the Possession Order that she must leave by or can I do this myself? I know I can't force her to leave the property physically if she is there but is there any reason that I can't just wait until she goes to work, get a locksmith to force entry and change the locks so she can't get back in? Is this an illegal eviction or is illegal eviction only relevant without a possession order or if someone has a tenancy agreement? I would much prefer to do this as it would be much cheaper, just he cost of the locksmith.
As a joint owner I see no reason why you cannot just enter. Or change the locks on your own property. I don't see that the Protection from eviction Act could apply (but I may be wrong).

2. The property has a garage which is accessible from the street and she has a key, I was thinking I could move all her furniture and possessions in there during the day and lock it so she would not be deprived access to her belongings. Is this reasonable/legal?
Seems reasonable.

3. If I have to pay for an eviction through CC Bailiffs or HCEO and other costs of entry such as a locksmith, can I claim these costs back from her? The only thing I can think of doing is to make her aware beforehand that should this be necessary I will claim costs back and then subsequently apply to the small claims court. Is that an option?
Yes.

4. I understand a money Judgement for rent arrears can be enforced by HCEO's at the same time as eviction. I have a money Judgement with the same Court reference number as the Possession Order due to my ex being ordered to pay my costs of application to date regarding the property. This has already been transferred up to the High Court and with the HCEO's. If I instruct the HCEO's to do the eviction can they also enforce this money Judgement relating to the property.
Ask the court Officials. They won't give legal advice, but this would be procedural advice I believe

Thank you in advance to anyone knowledgeable in these matters who can help and any advice that I may not have asked for or thought of would be appreciated too!

SL

Is she not in Contempt Of Court? I have no idea but that might be another avenue.......

Best of luck. she sounds like a nightmare.

bris

You can claim all these expenses from her share of the property, and take her to the small claims court for any losses you have suffered due to the mortgage arrears. If there is any equity for you both to split then send her a bill after completion.


Personally with a 14 day possession order in your possession then even if she did get the police you have a legal possession order so they would not get involved, change (after 14 days) the locks and get the police if she tries to move back in.

jamie11

As in your other thread, use the court appointed officers, anything else is going to be risky.

phill99

Use the HCEO route. They act immediately, and don't send letters in advance warning her that they are coming. They simply turn up and enforce the possession order. This will be the most cost effective in the long run as it is the quickest and will mean the house can be markeyed quicker and the mortgage arrears minimised.

I wouldn't worry about the small claims route with her for other costs. I would not want my involvement with a person like this to be prolonged. Best just to cut your losses.

Terrysdelight

Can I ask, were you actually married?


Why did it take numerous visits to court before you was given permission to sell?

ALS99

phill99 wrote: »

Use the HCEO route. They act immediately, and don't send letters in advance warning her that they are coming. They simply turn up and enforce the possession order. This will be the most cost effective in the long run as it is the quickest and will mean the house can be markeyed quicker and the mortgage arrears minimised.

I wouldn't worry about the small claims route with her for other costs. I would not want my involvement with a person like this to be prolonged. Best just to cut your losses.

Thank you. I understand HCEO's are much quicker but because I am not aware of all the legal technicalities at the hearing when the possession order was made I didn't know I should have asked the Judge to add the extra bit at the end which gives permission for me to have it transferred up if she doesn't leave. As I understand it I need to make a new application to the County Court, paying another fee and more waiting to have a Judge consider my request for permission to be allowed to transfer up. Our local Court is so busy it will take months.

I would love to cut my loses and move on, unfortunately we have children together so have to have some interaction with her anyway. But you're right, not sure if chasing my costs back via small court is worth the hassle...

ALS99

Terrysdelight wrote: »

Can I ask, were you actually married?


Why did it take numerous visits to court before you was given permission to sell?

Nope never married just co habiting.

First hearing was a direction hearing, she didn't attend so Judge made an Order that we both file statements and set another hearing date. Second hearing a few months later she attended and said she wanted to stay living there and would try and buy me out. Judge gave her 3 months to try and obtain a mortgage to buy me out. Next hearing was 6 months later, the final hearing. She hadn't submitted a statement and didn't attend, so the Judge ordered the sale.

She tried to appeal but it was rejected as she hadn't bothered attending the hearing and had run up mortgage arrears plus had no grounds for appeal.

I guess what I need to know is can I evict her myself if she doesn't leave after the possession order date or will it be classed as a illegal eviction. Is it even eviction if she isn't a tenant and doesn't have a tenancy agreement given I am co owner. I have to be so careful due to my job. I think I will have no choice but to go through HCEO process...

Terrysdelight

Don't delay it anymore. You are both on the deeds. Just go in when she has gone out. Change all the locks and put her stuff in the garage. If she cry's to anyone - say you didn't move her stuff - she did it all herself. And tell them she must have done it because she was ordered to give you vacant possession so you just assumed she had complied. It wouldn't surprise me if she tries to move back in though. Legally, I don't know if you need a bailiff - has she got anywhere to go?