Court permission to take a child abroad

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

DaveTheMus wrote: »

You really do enjoy a good 'What if?' JoJo...

The man has already said it might be permanent.

Isn't a 'might be' a 'what if?'. The OP sounded like a what if it's permanent - a 'why can't I stop her in case it's an abduction?'



Nowt wrong with thinking about other possibilities or considering things from a different perspective. An alternative could be 'well, seeing as you don't have a residence order in your favour, it's because the other parent is felt to be best placed to make those decisions as they have the daily care of the child and it's their decision and that of the courts if you don't like it. Sorry, but that's what happens when you split up.'

But that wouldn't be particularly helpful, anymore than 'oh, you poor thing, that's awful, it's obviously going to be the last time you ever see them'.


Fact is, it's not healthy to have somebody dictate where another adult lives. The only thing the court will get involved in is whether it is in the best interest of the child to stay with the parent that already has primary care/a residence order. Which, unless it's somewhere like Afghanistan or an Ebola Cremation facility, it probably is.


In case you are attacking on the basis of assumptions, I'm been the PWC and the NRP at different times. I would neither seek to control or be controlled, no matter how much I disliked or distrusted the other parent or their motives, it's just how things are, like it or not, the law is there for the best intentions, not to make people miserable.

FBaby

I think the "default" behaviour is staying in the same country. It is the parent making the move abroad (in case of amazing job, falling in love or whatever) that should make the sacrifice of not seeing the children anymore, not the default behaviour parent. Not sure if I make myself clear, but seems pretty obvious to me.

A court will never look at it from the perspective of the parent (ie. what's fair and what isn't) but from that of the child, ie. how the move will affect their physical and mental stability.

For example, the child lives with mum and step-dad who are now married and in a stable relationship, step-dad supports them, they have a close relationship and step-dad's is told he has to move abroad for work. Child sees dad every other week-end. Mum says that they will pay and fly with the child once a month, or every holiday to keep relationship with dad. This might be granted.

Same as child lives with mum and only sees dad when dad feels like it. There is no regular contact, no maintenance. Mum comes from foreign country and has little support in the UK. She works but has been made redundant. She has been offered a good job in her home country, already has accomodation and school sorted. Good chance it would be granted.

Child stays half the time with mum, half with dad. Dad is very involved, child is very settled at school. Mum decides she wants to move to a foreign country she has only ever been to on holiday to be with her boyfriend she met on holiday a year ago. She is reliant on said boyfriend for accommodation and hasn't yet looked for appropriate schools. She doesn't speak the language, neither does child. Chance of being granted, nil!

swingaloo

But in November you were posting on here to ask how long YOU could stay abroad without it affecting your benefits.


Where will the support be for the children while you are abroad?

gilbutre

@thorsoak: We have only one child, 4 years old. We haven't divorced or physically separated yet. If she took our child abroad, she would probably study part-time and work part-time, or study full-time and have our child taken care of by her mother. If living alone with our child here, she would probably study part-time or full-time while child is at school, and she would probably receive full childcare benefits.

@FBaby: thanks for the examples, I understand it well now!

@swingaloo: my wife plans to take our child for 4 months to her country and I planned to spend 2 months in my parents' country during that period. But now I'm worried about what would happened if she simply didn't come back.

Gigglepig

If you can manage to stay amicable, living abroad with their extended family might enrich the child's life.

If you don't agree with the child moving abroad it may help to present specific facts regarding why you don't think it would be in their interest. (But consider the opportunities a move would present to your child carefully and don't jump to conclusions just because you are angry with your partner. )

I would try to think of lots of angles for example

-Where are the best educational opportunities at their age?
-Where do they have the strongest extended family network - for example it it sounds pretty good if your MIL will provide free childcare?
General livign standard?
- Will the mother be able to better herself abroad hence providing better for the children in the long run?
-Who spends the most time with the child now, you its mother?
-What language skills, cultural, sporting and other opprtunities might be available for your children here and abroad?
- Do you have access to top medical care both here and abroad?

bouicca21

Assuming you have parental responsibility, you have to give permission for an extended visit abroad, and you could seek a prohibited steps order to prevent them from going. The court's decision may be influenced by a variety of factors - does she have ties in this country that suggest she would wish to return, is her country a REMO country, does she have return tickets, is there a past history of attempts or threats of abduction.

fedupdad

Unless the parent with care has a residence order for the child than that parent would still have to obtain permission from the other parent even to take the child on a short holiday abroad. If they don't seek permission it is child abduction. Simple.

To take a child permanently to live in another country the parent with care has to apply to court for leave to remove. This isn't as easy as it sounds and is not guaranteed to be successful.

gilbutre

All right, thanks everybody. It's clearer now.

peachyprice

fedupdad wrote: »

Unless the parent with care has a residence order for the child than that parent would still have to obtain permission from the other parent even to take the child on a short holiday abroad. If they don't seek permission it is child abduction. Simple.

Except that unless there is a court order and a restriction notice placed on the child's passport it's highly unlikely it would ever get picked up at the port/airport.

Even the mythical letter giving permission to take a child abroad is a useless piece of paper because there's no point of reference to say whether the absent parent has signed the letter, anyone can just type out a letter, sign it themselves and take a child out of the country.

The border agency is far more interested in people bringing illegal children into the country than parents leaving with their own child.

gilbutre

So in practice it's all bogus ?