Unequal And Unfair Cheque Clearing Times

someone

marky you are the one talking biased GARBAGE RUBBISH get your facts right and so proper research before you insult people and a CEO !!!!

ALL the banks have the state of the art electronic technology and can clear a cheque not only same day (1 day) but even within 1 hour !!!!
Where is this "technology", in the my local bank today? I think not. If you are talking about CHAPS this is not the same as cheques as it is low volume and electronic.

What is missing is the goodwill, desire and willingness to give up millions of £ pounds (made from clearing delays) on the part of the banks.


These basic self evident facts have been known and admitted by
CEOs like Lloydstsb Eric Daniels in 2005 and by bank insiders.
When using facts stated by a person, please elaborate or provide the quote and souses, how do I know you are not making it up?

It makes me extremely angry that biased worthless nonsense like you post marky is given the time of day and worthless bank excuses are listened to and we have the usual "manual" and "paper" etc vomited out to fool gullible people.
Why, cause he is right? You know the numbers and letters at the bottom of a cheque contain magnetic material. These are passed over readers that detect the magnetic ink and read the account number ect

I have personal experience of having funds cleared even abroad
WITHIN HOURS with both banks electronically confirming and
agreeing that the funds were available, were clear and could be had.
Lets take a step back. Is it good that funds are "cleared" in an hour? The instruction is to YOUR bank to pay the money, not the receiver to claim the money. How does your bank know that

Bank apologists and insiders like you marky should not be allowed
to regurgitate more false and malicious nonsense about the CHEQUE.

The CHEQUE is a written instruction and record of what you tell your
bank and for millions of people it will always be cherished and valued.
Which is why your own bank likes to have it in their hands before parting with the money

It is totally selfish, ignorant and wrong to try and blacken the cheque
good name and good service.
Why it selfish to say the cheque is a bad thing?

I am again forced to correct biased, erroneous and plainly wrong
postings on this forum and I do not get any thanks for doing it.
Facts can't be biased.


Just a further question, why are you so against change?

BWZN93

John_in_the_city wrote: »

Balladeer,

Give up the cheque, its a dinosaur whose days are numbered. And comparing what happens overseas with the UK is a pointless exercise. Of course technology can accelerate most things, but that is only one part of the equation. In the UK, the physical PAPER is exchanged between the clearing banks. Every day, couriers shuttle bags of cheques by van and plane to the main clearing centres. There is a 3 day clearing cycle which has a regulatory framework around it. Other countries allow for the exchange of images (called truncation) which means the physical paper is not moved. The law does not yet allow that in this country! So there is an antiquated system that is the reality.

The moves by the OFT are around 2-4-6; (interest from day 2, value from day 4 and non-repudiation from day 6) are just minimum standards which (with the exception of day 6) most banks provide now!

The real advance will come with the advent of faster payments next year which will pretty much put the nails in the cheques coffin. Its days are numbered, its acceptance is diminishing daily. Purely from a commercial perspective, Banks will not put in the significant investment that would be required to reach your performance benchmark on a product that is shrinking and has little opportunity for profit.

Balladeer, divert your energies to something else, this is a battle not worth fighting!

Well said!

Jo x

MarkyMarkD

I'm loath even to reply to a muppet like Balladeer.

But as Balladeer can't provide his/her sources, the article referred to is here: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article419481.ece

Strangely the quote which Balladeer wishfully imagines stating

Balladeer wrote:

ALL the banks have the state of the art electronic technology and can clear a cheque not only same day (1 day) but even within 1 hour !!!!

actually states:

THE chief executive of Lloyds TSB yesterday said that clearing cheques on the same day could be possible if the banks agreed to invest money in upgrading their systems.

I shan't waste my breath on the other "facts" Balladeer presents, as the whole premise for his/her rant is false.

There's no point in banks upgrading their cheque clearance systems, because their customers don't want it enough to pay for it. Most people don't give a stuff that cheques take 3 working days to clear.

someone

BALLADEER wrote: »

Clearly though if I am from the point of view of the poor oppressed bank
customer and you are from the other end ..then we will not agree......

What other end is this?
I do not work for a bank
I do not work for any company that provides services or solutions to a bank
I do not hold any shares in any bank or any funds that include banks (cause i don't have any at all)

What I am is a bank customer. What concerns me is not clearing times of banks (which for all the paper chasing seams reasonable) but the fact that electronic transfers take so long. Guess what, its what most customers want and its what the banks are investing in (faster payments).

Have you ever stopped and thought what damage a cheque actually does to the environment. The cheque book as to be printed for the payer. It is then posted out. Then when they want to pay someone they have to send it to that person. This is quite often via the post. Of course you have to put it in an envelope. This then arrives at the person that needs to be paid. They have to take this bit of paper to the bank (via car maybe) who print out a slip to say that it has been banked. Then the bank has to clear the cheque so it ends up at the payers bank!

BWZN93

BALLADEER wrote: »

From the green environment view I like your analysis someone.
What I value in the cheque system is that I can physically control
and copy a cheque, write it and it exists !!! The electronic transfer
which is deemed to succeed the cheque is lacking the same feel, copy
and control because it puts all the control/power in the banks hands.
If you "trust" the banks it may be "ok" but I DO NOT and for me its NOT ok at all. Maybe its old fashioned but I value the cheque.


And you also raise a good point that electronic transfer are not
speedy as they seem to arrive at the receiving bank on the 3rd day !!

If you are also a "customer" of banks then I am surprised as we
clearly have different priorities and viewpoints.

My experiences with banks have been very negative as I have been
VICTIM of bank abuse/fraud/criminality/theft of my money and these events do shape my attitude as they should.

Maybe you should change banks

Id prefer my money be invested in the faster payments system to be honest - cheques are antiquated for most people I know.
Jo x

MarkyMarkD

Balladeer

The "same bank" scenario referred to in an earlier post doesn't support your argument one iota. Obviously there's far less hassle involved to clear a cheque between two accounts with the same bank and that should happen same or next day.

But cross-bank clearance involves aggregating together millions of transactions, sending them to a central clearing house, reaggregating them between the paying banks, sending them back to the individual banks' computers, moving lots of money around, and eventually debiting/crediting individual accounts. And all with a risk of bouncing too.

It's obvious to me, and others, that this isn't a simple process.

You've lied that Eric Daniels said that the systems already exist to do this - they don't - and ignored my comment to that effect. And ridiculously accused me of insulting Eric Daniels when all I did was question your mistaken recollection of what he'd said.

You've suggested that banks should pay the costs of an improvement few customers would value on the spurious grounds of bank overdraft charges. Irrelevant. As a bank shareholder and a bank customer, I only want my bank to invest in things which customers care about sufficiently to pay for them. If you want to pay 50p or £1 a time for instant cheque clearance, and all your cheque-using friends would also do so, then I'm sure that the banks would introduce instant cheque clearance. But they don't, and they won't. Bank customers like yourself don't want to pay anything for anything - is it any wonder that things don't get improved?

You rant on about electronic payment times. The banks are already taking steps to rectify this next year. If they could have done it quicker, they would have. Changing systems in at least a dozen banks, and all the links between them, is a huge and very expensive undertaking.

John_in_the_city

Balladeer,

You seem to have suffered in some way at the hands of the banking system. So that aside, the problem with cheques (apart from the slump in usage and general acceptance) is fraud. A LOT of manpower is used in banks combatting cheque fraud. I raise this only because you have given a whole list of "victim/criminality" issues .... and yet you actively support a same day clearing cycle. This would be jeopardising your money! The current cycle at least offers some cushion, dealing with the volume of fraud same day would lead to either errors and losses born by the customer or increase in charges (somewhere in the banking system) to support the increased staff!

Throw the cheque book into the trash and embrace the 21st century .... its here to stay!

someone

John_in_the_city wrote: »

Throw the cheque book into the trash and embrace the 21st century .... its here to stay!

I think that shredding it would be a better idea. Can never be to careful.

Which also reminds me, Credit Card cheques are a con and I think it is disgraceful that they just sent out willy nilly, how do you know if they are lost in the post to report them lost?

MarkyMarkD

BALLADEER wrote: »

The 2005 Lloydstsb CEO Eric Daniels was in total agreement with us as he correctly wrote that ALL BANKS have the technology (electronic) and the means to CLEAR all cheques in 1 day. All is needed is GOODWILL

MarkyMarkD wrote:

You've lied that Eric Daniels said that the systems already exist to do this - they don't - and ignored my comment to that effect.

BALLADEER wrote: »

NO NEIN I did not "lie" as you alleged because I have purely quoted from :

Times 5 March 2005 article by Caroline Merrell of the Times

Eric Daniels (CEO of Lloydstsb) said :
"we support the initiative to speed up clearing (cheques) and we are
working with APACS. We can only move as fast as the slowest bank.
There has to be SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT in systems(clearing)".

Ms Merrell introduces the article by summing up E Daniels as
"the chief executive of Lloydstsb , yesterday said that clearing cheques on the SAME DAY could be possible, if the banks agreed to
invest money in upgrading their systems".

EXACTLY what I have been saying over and over GOODWILL+INVEST
but the basic structure and electronic means are already present.
I therefore suggest Marky that YOU LIED in misquoting me :mad:.

I'm very bored of this thread. I shan't reply if Balladeer attempts to make up some more stories.

dunstonh

I am suspicious of why exactly some people are so anxious to kill off
the cheque ?? I am all for progress and technology but also i know
that many classic 60s and 70s systems/ideas/music/films were and
are still THE BEST and you should not be looking to embrace in a hurry

Do you drive an Austin Allegro?