Lease car company already paid - worth appealing?

Marktheshark

Certainly a company to avoid like plague.
You are almost guaranteed to get a a parking charge first PPC goon that spots you anywhere, its as good as paid the second they write the reg down.

As the contract goes, they have to mitigate any loss, just paying up and charging you straight from the bank is not mitigating a loss is it.
What a **** company they must be.
All they had to do was name the driver.
Get on to them and invoice them for it back.

Half_way

http://www.citycarclub.co.uk/legal/terms

9. Payments:
9.1 Invoices are payable via Direct Debit, debit or credit cards only (unless otherwise mutually agreed between City Car Club and the Member). Invoices are produced on a daily basis for any completed reservations and payment collected the following morning via credit/debit card using Continuous Payment Authority (CPA) – see section 19. Members who agreed to Direct Debit payment terms will continue with via this payment method unless the member switches to daily card payments.
9.2 Current rental rates, mileage charges, other charges and penalties are always clearly displayed on the City Car Club website. These charges may change at any time without prior notice being given to the Member.
9.3 Should payment of any invoice be declined or is unpaid for any reason City Car Club reserves the right to restrict or cancel membership until full payment is made. A £10 charge may be applied to any failed Direct Debit. City Car Club also reserves the right to charge future reservations on a restricted account unless reservations are cancelled. Should a default notice be applied to your account you have 7 days to make payment. Failure to do so may result in an application for county court judgement to be issued against you.
9.4 The Member’s signature to this Agreement, or online acceptance of City Car Club’s terms and conditions, shall constitute authority for City Car Club to compute and debit all monies due against the Member’s nominated credit/debit card or bank account at any time. This includes charges due as a result of theft of, or damage to, the Vehicle, including any fines, administration charges or court costs for parking and traffic offences as described in section 10, plus any penalties or any other costs arising due to the Member’s use of the Vehicle.
9.5 City Car Club reserves the right to take payment from any payment card or payment method provided by the Member to settle any unpaid invoices/outstanding balances. Please note if payment is collected via a card due to a failed direct debit your account will still remain restricted until you make contact with our Accounts Team.
9.6 All invoice queries must be raised within 14 days from date of invoice.
9.7 All damage, insurance excess, traffic and parking offences and associated administration fees fall outside of normal credit terms and must be paid by return upon notification of charges. Payment will then be collected 7 days from the date of the invoice.
9.8 For Business accounts, City Car Club reserves the right to charge interest on any debt that is outside agreed terms of credit. The Late payments of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998 will be applied under such circumstances unless otherwise agreed.
10. Other Charges
10.1 City Car Club is a club with members and as such tries to avoid charging outside usage charges. However, in order for the club to function correctly for all Members, City Car Club has the right to charge certain penalties in those cases where Members do not follow the rules of the club either intentionally or unintentionally. The final decision on whether to raise the extra charge lies solely with City Car Club.
10.2 Full details of all the charges are as shown in the current Tariff List: Other Charges.
a) The agreed hourly charges as they may apply from time to time for the period including authorised and unauthorised extensions;
b) Any applicable reservation charges;
c) Any applicable penalty charges;
d) All mileage charges relating to the distance travelled whilst the vehicle is in use;
e) Any fines, penalties, court costs or other expenses imposed on City Car Club by law arising from the use of the vehicle while on hire to you, unless due to the City Car Club’s fault, which shall not relieve you or any other person of direct responsibility to any public authority for your unlawfulness;
f) City Car Club’s costs including reasonable legal fees and administration charges incurred in collecting amounts due from you under this Agreement;
g) Any amounts due under any clauses in this Agreement relating to the loss or damage of the vehicle;
h) Any sums incurred by the City Car Club in connection with the recovery of the vehicle or otherwise incurred by the City Car Club due to your acts or omissions.
i) A £10 charge will be applied to any failed direct debit.

11. Responsibility of the user
11.1 You are responsible for the agreed excess of any damage howsoever caused. In the event that the damage is not reported to City Car Club by you the insurance excess may be doubled.
11.2 You are responsible up to the agreed excess for any costs of repairs to the windscreen or body glass.
11.3 You are responsible for the insurance excess towards any costs related to the theft of the vehicle whilst in your custody or control if no negligence is proved. This contribution will be doubled if you are found in City Car Club’s discretion to have been negligent.
11.4 You are responsible for paying for any permits to park the vehicle during the hire period as well as any tolls or charges levied as a result of using the vehicle.
11.5 You must inform City Car Club if during your reservation you change any equipment on the vehicle such as wheels, tyres, wiper blades, bulbs etc.
11.6 You are responsible up to the agreed excess for any costs of repairs to wheels or tyres.
11.7 If during your reservation a puncture occurs or comes to light you must report this to City Car Club and it is your responsibility to change the wheel using the equipment provided. If you cannot change the wheel yourself or do not wish to change the wheel, City Car Club will use its best endeavours to assist and this assistance may lead to a charge up to a maximum of £75.

they could try under 11.4 but that states that you not them are responsible for paying any charges.


You will get plenty of help in dealing with this on here, as from having a quick read through of the terms and conditions there are a few howlers in there - they seem to be under the impression that they as a private company can charge penalties

Club rules:

As a courtesy to your fellow members you must not:

• Smoke in the car (which is also now required to comply with legislation).
• Transport pets in the car (allergies and smell – sorry).
• Return a car at the end of your reservation with less than a quarter tank of fuel (fuel cards are in each car to top the fuel at City Car Club’s expense).
• Leave the car excessively dirty for the next member, or dirty on the inside including litter in the car.

Failing to follow the above Club Rules carries a penalty of £30 plus, if necessary, the cost of specialist cleaning.

If Parking eye win the Beavis appeal ( hopefully unlikely) this sort of penalty clause in contracts may become more common in other areas away from the deluded world of parking.
I started a topic a while back on this scenario involving the possibility of mobile phone companies penalising customers on the back of parking eye believing that penalties are commercially justified, and using the Beavis case to try and back that up, even though its up for appeal.- will try and dig this old topic out

m.w.r.

So the private parking charges are not penalties, nor offences - but are they tickets?

Attached to Ts & Cs is an explainer that states:

Parking tickets:
Parking tickets are your responsibility and must be paid for directly by you. If the ticket has to be processed by the club, an administration fee of £30 will be added (we are often charged more by our leasing companies – as they receive the tickets and forward to us).

Can anyone explain how this wording affects the case please?

And yes, the car club's admin fee was not just 25 quid, but £25 plus VAT - cheeky :P

Half_way

Private parking charges are technically speculative invoices, or even specualtive/highly dubious contractual charge notices between the driver and the parking company.
they are not fines
they are not penalties
they are not even tickets

a ticket is something you get that entitles you do so something such as park/enter an event or place/travel on a form of public transport/take a gamble on the lottery/local raffle etc etc.

As mentioned before the T&Cs have more holes in them than a lump of swiss cheese - however if the company believe they can charge penalties- which they cant as a private company you may have a little work in convincing them however with further input form here it should be do able and you should be able to get your money back/not pay out.
and if theres any mention of Parking Eye vs Beavis, remember its up for appeal

Coupon-mad

Situation already covered the other week:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5113541

Complain!

bazster

How did they take the money from your bank? Direct Debit? If so, get it back by making a claim to your bank under the Direct Debit Guarantee on the grounds that they didn't give you the required notice of the charge.

Fruitcake

m.w.r. wrote: »

So the private parking charges are not penalties, nor offences - but are they tickets?

Attached to Ts & Cs is an explainer that states:

Parking tickets:
Parking tickets are your responsibility and must be paid for directly by you. If the ticket has to be processed by the club, an administration fee of £30 will be added (we are often charged more by our leasing companies – as they receive the tickets and forward to us).

Can anyone explain how this wording affects the case please?

And yes, the car club's admin fee was not just 25 quid, but £25 plus VAT - cheeky :P

From the above: -

Parking tickets are your responsibility and must be paid for directly by you.

Therefore must NOT be paid for by anyone else. The club's rules say so.

If the ticket has to be processed by the club ...

The club musn't process it because the line above says so, therefore there is no If. Their club rules say so.

Coupon-mad

Also, Highview postal PCNs are not fully compliant with the POFA 2012 (and sometimes arrive after day 15 as well) so you can also state that the PCN never 'had' to be paid by the owner/keeper, as there was no keeper liability established. So they have paid something which was none of their business, however they try to argue it.