catalogue debt - don't know where to turn

angel85

Anoneemoose, I understand and actually do agree with what you say . I'm just afraid. I have never in my life been in a position like this before, so fear of the unknown is really starting to affect me.
I rent my home and wonder now how long this bloody catalogue is going to affect me for before I will ever be considered for a mortgage. A very long time I expect.
The advice from fermi was great, very helpful. I'll get that letter done and posted today.
Thanks guys.

sourcrates

angel85 wrote: »

Anoneemoose, I understand and actually do agree with what you say . I'm just afraid. I have never in my life been in a position like this before, so fear of the unknown is really starting to affect me.
I rent my home and wonder now how long this bloody catalogue is going to affect me for before I will ever be considered for a mortgage. A very long time I expect.
The advice from fermi was great, very helpful. I'll get that letter done and posted today.
Thanks guys.

You need to follow Happy_bunnys advice and send a CCA request to littlewoods.
They are terrible at keeping paperwork, chances are, from that long ago, they wont have it.

Here is a good template letter to send, amend it to your own situation, you must send the £1 fee, best by postal order, or cheque :


Debt Collector,
Their Building,
Their Street,
Their Town,
AB1 2XY

Date

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:- Account/Reference Number 1234567890

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or its clients. (delete this line if you are not disputing the debt)

With reference to the above agreement, I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond with you further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

2. A full statement of account.

3. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

4. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

angel85

Sourcrates, thank you! I always feel like I have to be nice to them in my letters but sometimes it can make me sound like I have no idea what I am talking about. This template is perfect!

happy_bunny_2

As per sourcrates and fermi

dancingfairy

I've never heard of the 30 day reply thing. Yes, you should keep them informed (to be polite) but I don't see that you have to reply to every letter they send (particularly if they are just repeating old ground)/ not responding to you.
Send a letter the first few times if you want, reiterating that as per your previous letter nothing has changed, but frankly after that I'd save myself the cost of writing the letter and the stamp.
You've told them you're struggling, you've told them you can only afford x a month. That's it. They can't get blood out of a stone.
df

sourcrates

angel85 wrote: »

Sourcrates, thank you! I always feel like I have to be nice to them in my letters but sometimes it can make me sound like I have no idea what I am talking about. This template is perfect!

If nothing else this will give you a short period of breathing space.
You are under no obligation to continue paying, whilst a CCA request is being actioned.
Wait and see what response you get from Littlewoods, then post back here for advice.
I will subscribe to your thread so i can pick up your posts.

angel85

Hi All,
I received a reply from the catalogue company 2 days ago.
It say's please find enclosed a copy of your current credit agreement which includes all contractual variations and amendments that have taken place since your account was opened.
According to our records your account was opened in XXX 2004 (then states the outstanding balance which is now a thousand pound more than when I started to write to them about my circumstances in March 2014)
It says you agreed to make payments every 28 days.
It asks me to contact them if I am experiencing financially difficulties and they will consider my case sympathetically.
Ending with if you require further information about historical transactions on your account we may be able to provide a copy at a charge of £5 per statement.


The credit agreement enclosed is a blank agreement, meaning it is only signed by the company. It does not have my details printed on it at all, no signature and the apr information is also blank.


This is what I sent to them;
With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest and/or charges applied.


I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of any signed credit agreement and a statement of account on request.


I enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.


I understand that, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.


What next?


Thanks!

rizla_king

To Littlewoods

You have failed to comply with my request under section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I would remind you of the FCA rules CONC 13.1 and Carey vs HSBC with respect to a true copy.

CONC 13.1.4 - The terms and conditions should be those applicable at the time the agreement was executed. The name and address at the time of execution must be included.

CONC 13.1.4 - If the agreement has been varied, the duty is to provide not only a copy of the agreement as originally executed but also either:
(a) a copy of the latest variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the CCA relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or,
(b) a clear statement of the terms of the agreement as varied.

If the reason why no original copy is given in response to a request under these sections is that there never was an executed agreement, the firm should acknowledge this in its response.

CONC 13.1.6 - Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.

CONC 13.1.6 - In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.

CONC 13.1.6 - In particular, a firm should not in such cases either threaten court action or other enforcement of the debt or imply that the debt is enforceable when it is not.

CONC 13.1.6 - However, where a firm is aware that an agreement is unenforceable because of non-compliance with an information request under section 77, 78 or 79 of the CCA, a firm should make it clear when communicating to a customer about a debt that the debt is in fact unenforceable. Failure to do so, in that case, would in the FCA's view unfairly mislead the customer by omission. Any communication that implies expressly or otherwise that a debt is enforceable when it is known that it is not, would be misleading. One way to avoid this would be for the firm to explain to the customer the full meaning of 'unenforceable'.

You are in breach of s78 CCA1974 and in breach of FCA rules in trying to pass off a blank copy of your current agreements as compliance with s78 and by attempting to mislead by omission or otherwise that the agreement you have provided is enforceable.

This fact is not in doubt and any attempt to pretend that you have complied with s78 will be reported to the FCA.

Each and every communication you send trying to mislead myself that you have complied with s78 will result in a new report to the FCA.

I will in the meantime be reporting your existing misleading conduct to the FCA.

I would also remind you that trying to pretend that there was ever an executed agreement when this was not the case would not only be a misleading practice, but in may in fact be fraudulent on your part.

sourcrates

Hi,
From what you have said, the document they have sent you is not a correct response to your CCA request.

It is totally worthless, and they are attempting to fob you off.
What they should of sent you was a copy of your ORIGINAL AGREEMENT, they have sent you a copy of an agreement that is in force now, not what you asked for.

To comply with the legislation, that governs CCA agreements applicable to 2004, and that time period, the correct response would have been a copy of your original agreement, or a reconstituted copy that included all your personal details, plus your financial details also, plus the terms and conditions that were in force at that time, anything else does not comply with your request.

What do you do now ?

you write back stating that the documents they have sent you, do not comply with your request for a copy of your original agreement, that what they have sent you is a blank copy of a current agreement, add that all your personal details are missing, as are the prescribed terms applicable to your account, for example, the interest rate applicable, the credit limit, how you are to discharge payment etc etc, any one of these issues "can" render an agreement unenforceable.

Reiterate that what they have sent you does not comply with your CCA request, and ask again for a copy of your original agreement, not a copy of a current agreement.
And until such time this is received, you will not be paying the account (as you are perfectly entitled to do under the terms of the consumer credit act).

See how they respond to that.

rizla_king

Please report littelewood to the FCA for trying to mislead you.

They try this scam every time when they know they never had an original agreement. Report to consumer.queries@fca.org.uk