Sold car privately, buyer wants me to pay for fixing it after couple of days later.

fatbelly

The only thing I can see that autotrader have on their website is guidance on creating a receipt

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/advice/2010/07/buying/doing-the-paperwork-car-buyers#receipt

burnt_toast_2

I can concur there is nothing the purchaser can do in a private sale. Stop panicking

Wig

I don't see what difference having a contract that says "car to be roadworthy" makes. All cars -in all sales of those cars whether private or trade- must, under the law, be roadworthy, *unless: the seller specifically has reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle will not be used on the road unless first repaired to be roadworthy. Knowledge or ignorance of the unroadworthiness of the vehicle is irrelevant.

*This exclusion clause obviously does not exclude any †"normal private sale" where the obvious intention is that the car is being sold for use on the road and is usually to be driven away.

Therefore there is an implied contract for all of the above private sales that the car will be roadworthy. To be otherwise, would be unlawful.

All that is left to determine is whether or not the vehicle was actually unroadworthy on the day of sale. This is not an easy thing to prove, certainly, severe corrosion in safety critical areas, noticed soon enough after sale, would be clear cut evidence that the car was unroadworthy at the time of sale. anything else would be much more difficult.

The buyer's report only mentions the fact that the gear jumping out of gear would make it unroadworthy, It doesn't say that it has jumped out of gear, only that in the mechanic's opinion, it is a possibility that it *might* jump out of gear. I would be asking. (when the time comes).. given that the car never jumped out of gear up to the day of sale and during the test drive, how and when has it been witnessed that it "jumps out of gear", and what evidence do they have that it jumps out of gear? Video evidence for example. And for your own independent engineeers report to be made on the vehicle to see if this jumping out of gear can be witnessed.

Personally, I would not go through the expense of having an independent engineers report done unless they win a case against you in court and you then take it to appeal, the problem here, is that by then, the car might have been repaired.

Most people on these sorts of threads (we have just had a previous thread here which the OP probably found on google) https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5134663
Just dismiss out of hand that a buyer has any recourse under the law without providing any evidence to back up their comments. I don't think that this is a very useful way to provide advice on a forum.

Let me make my position clear,

• I believe that S75 RTA requires all †'normal privately sold cars' to be roadworthy,
• I believe that if it can be shown to a civil court that the car was NOT roadworthy at the time of sale then the buyer will be awarded damages by the civil court.
• I believe that "sold as seen" etc, would afford no protection to the seller.
• I believe this because the law is clearly written, and if someone incurs a loss because you have broken a law, then that someone is entitled to compensation.
• I believe that you need not have a conviction under S75 in order for a civil court to decide that the law was broken by you and thus to be able to award damages against you.
• I believe that no court would go against a private seller unless the evidence is clear cut and substantial.
• I have NO EVIDENCE to back up my comments EXCEPT Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act, and Tort law.
• No one else provides any evidence to the contrary, no case records or case law have been provided.
• I am simply saying, I don't believe that it is as simple as saying "private sale you have nothing to worry about"
• If it were me, I would defend the case on the basis that the car was roadworthy at the time of sale and play on the fact that the mechanic's report provides no evidence that it jumps out of gear, and no evidence that it jumped out of gear before the sale took place. And that the mechanic is not a Certified Civil Engineer.

diable

I always thought it was "buyer beware"

Wig

diable wrote: »

I always thought it was "buyer beware"

So did I, but according to C.A.B., you and everyone else here are wrong. It's just a pity none of those other posters on this or the other thread are now prepared to say anything further on the matter, I'm only acting as devil's advocate to spark debate, but it appears they all want to remain silent.

A private seller may be unlikely to lose, but as far as I can see, they could lose nonetheless.

Retrogamer

diable wrote: »

I always thought it was "buyer beware"

When it goes to small claim courts & private sales, that's usually the verdict.

aurifere

Hi everybody, I'd like to wish you all the best in 2015.
At the beginning thank you for all your replies.

I would like to show you what I've got from the buyer as a New Year present. He just sent me the:

"Letter Before Action

Dear Mr .......
Further to our conversation on 20th December, I am formally writing to advise you of my course of action with regards your sale of Ford Focus (reg) to me on 16th December 2014.

It is my belief Mr ..... that in selling the car you knowingly misinformed me as to the true condition of the vehicle by failing to specify a serious and potencially dangerous fault with the gearbox. (In the previous letter from his mechanic, the guy wants me also to pay for replacing the clutch)

Furthermore, by concealing this major underlying fault you wilfully sold me an unroadworthy vehicle in contravention of The Road Traffic Act. In so doing, I also believe that you misdescribed the car's true condition in your original Auto Trader ad (as in my first post), in contravention of the Sale Of Goods Act 1979.

I would now like to give you the opportunity to put things right and restore the car to your "As described" condition Mr ........ by agreeing to bear the minimum cost of repairing the gearbox.

I should inform you however that if notification from yourself is not forthcoming within 21 days of postmark of this letter, I shall have no hesitation in referring the matter to HM Courts & Tribunals Service where I will seek to recover the necessary renumeration (and costs).

Yours faithfully,
.........."

Also on the 31th of December about 9pm, the buyer sent me a text where he wanted details of previous owner, because he wants to investigate the car, and also said that I didn't let him to test the car deeply, because there was no petrol in a car. What is total !!!!!!!!, he made 11,2 miles (I checked it on google maps), and also on the dash computer there was still over 40miles to drive.

Don't know what should I do, I fully disagree with this letter, and don't know if I should leave it, or look for some help. I am tired with that.

JustinR1979

Tell them you look forward to seeing them in court.

DUTR

aurifere wrote: »

Hi everybody, I'd like to wish you all the best in 2015.
At the beginning thank you for all your replies.

I would like to show you what I've got from the buyer as a New Year present. He just sent me the:

"Letter Before Action

Dear Mr .......
Further to our conversation on 20th December, I am formally writing to advise you of my course of action with regards your sale of Ford Focus (reg) to me on 16th December 2014.

It is my belief Mr ..... that in selling the car you knowingly misinformed me as to the true condition of the vehicle by failing to specify a serious and potencially dangerous fault with the gearbox. (In the previous letter from his mechanic, the guy wants me also to pay for replacing the clutch)

Furthermore, by concealing this major underlying fault you wilfully sold me an unroadworthy vehicle in contravention of The Road Traffic Act. In so doing, I also believe that you misdescribed the car's true condition in your original Auto Trader ad (as in my first post), in contravention of the Sale Of Goods Act 1979.

I would now like to give you the opportunity to put things right and restore the car to your "As described" condition Mr ........ by agreeing to bear the minimum cost of repairing the gearbox.

I should inform you however that if notification from yourself is not forthcoming within 21 days of postmark of this letter, I shall have no hesitation in referring the matter to HM Courts & Tribunals Service where I will seek to recover the necessary renumeration (and costs).

Yours faithfully,
.........."

Also on the 31th of December about 9pm, the buyer sent me a text where he wanted details of previous owner, because he wants to investigate the car, and also said that I didn't let him to test the car deeply, because there was no petrol in a car. What is total !!!!!!!!, he made 11,2 miles (I checked it on google maps), and also on the dash computer there was still over 40miles to drive.

Don't know what should I do, I fully disagree with this letter, and don't know if I should leave it, or look for some help. I am tired with that.

Just see him in court, which road traffic act is contravened? What did you willingly know, that he didn't know at the time of purchase?
If you can't see the guy is trying to scam you, then you deserved to be scammed.
Do not enter into any more correspondance with the buyer.

Retrogamer

I'd just respond with "i look forward to disputing your claims with the court"

They will either pull out, or if they do push forward they won't get anywhere for the following reasons.

Selling an roadworthy car as mentioned above is a criminal offense and not a civil one. Think about it. If selling cars with faults were illegal every car potentially has something wrong with it. It would also mean that cars sold as projects / spares & repairs would be illegal because not roadworthy. This clearly isn't the case.

If the car was advertised / described falsely this is what small claims is for. The car was roadworthy & advertised accurately and honestly when you sold it. This is all that matters and this is why it won't get anywhere.