Advice re negotiation with car dealers

BeenThroughItAll

spikyone wrote: »

Some things...

Well, that saved me posting.

x90tsb

Never rely on parkers valuations, ever, I work in the car trade and know NO ONE who use them. It's CAP or glass's these days.

londonTiger

1) know the market price of the car you're buying.

ratrace

spikyone wrote: »

All of those problems will happen with *any* diesel car, particularly ones that are used mostly for short journeys and rarely see a motorway.
The reason so many Focuses are on eBay is because lots of them have been sold; it's been the second or third best-selling car in the UK every year since 2010 and possibly earlier. Residuals are rubbish too (partly as a result of volumes), so they're not cost-effective to repair. Both of those mean that a lot end up being broken down.



This was true 15 years ago. German manufacturers have been rather rapidly losing their reputation for reliability of late. Look at the next car you pass, broken-down on the hard shoulder. If it's less than 5 years old, I bet it's a Beemer...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/64280/most-reliable-cars
One German car in the top 10 (2 if you include the almost-German Skoda), but also a Kia and a Peugeot. Further down, a Citroen DS3 is only just below an E-class, and a 3-series is just above a Dacia Logan - Romanian-built on French technology! Superior German reliability is now a myth.



Not sure why you think Delphi are crap, maybe you had a bad experience with them once, but let's de-bunk that for you:
First, Mercedes and VW both use Delphi fuel injection, Mercedes have done so for many years. There is also an element of protectionism in Germany - the use of German suppliers is 'encouraged'.
Second, Vauxhall do not use Delphi in recent models (GM used to own Delphi). The Focus engine you mention uses a Siemens system or a Bosch in non-Ford usage.
Third, most OEMs will use more than one brand of fuel injection system, which will vary between models. When VW started using Delphi, for instance, they introduced it solely for the current-gen Polo.
Fourth, Lucas' fuel injection business was bought by Delphi in the year 2000, so there haven't been cars with Lucas systems for a very long time. :rotfl:



Toyota GT86. Lexus IS. Mazda MX-5. Lexus LFA. Nissan GT-R. Nissan Juke. Honda Civic Type R. Mazda 6. Looks are subjective - and who cares from the drivers' seat anyway - but all of those get pretty good write-ups on the driving experience. Some are more affordable than others of course, but Toyota also co-developed the Aygo (with the French!), which despite its lack of power handled like a go-kart around town (first-gen as I haven't tried the new one yet).



Have you ever actually driven anything you're slating here? You claim to love cars, but you seem to have made your comments based on badge snobbery rather than facts.

Cor that must of taken a while to write :rotfl:

gzoom

ratrace wrote: »

stick to the Germans yes they might be a bit more expensive but trust me they know how to make a car and the parts they use are of high quality

for example - the Germans use parts like Bosh fuel pumps, Bosh fuel injectors, sachs suspension etc.....

My German BMW 3 series has cost me £2.5k to keep on the road in the last 12 months. Things which have needed replacing include, fuel pump, electric water pump, oil gasket, transmission gasket, coil packs, main valve gasket.....The car has only done 50k, full BMW service history...I'm not even going it entertain the idea of buying another German car again.

colino

Is there a special Christmas prize for spotting darkmatters latest reincarnation? (Keep the Christians and the Hindus happy).

ratrace

gzoom wrote: »

My German BMW 3 series has cost me £2.5k to keep on the road in the last 12 months. Things which have needed replacing include, fuel pump, electric water pump, oil gasket, transmission gasket, coil packs, main valve gasket.....The car has only done 50k, full BMW service history...I'm not even going it entertain the idea of buying another German car again.

Im not saying they are 100% bulletproof,they are after all cars and cars do go wrong

Its really a matter of opinion really from all the cars i had the Germans ones have given me the least problems, ive had 4 bmw's to date and apart from minor issues they have proven to be very reliable

motorguy

ratrace wrote: »

Im not saying they are 100% bulletproof,they are after all cars and cars do go wrong

Its really a matter of opinion really from all the cars i had the Germans ones have given me the least problems, ive had 4 bmw's to date and apart from minor issues they have proven to be very reliable

BMW diesels are prone to significant failures. I'd a 530d and it had already taken a turbo when i bought it, and there was about £1500 of bills in the time i had it.

Also, i'd a 320d with a turbo on the way out and its a common known failure on them.

My sone has a 120d which we've learned has one of the engines that is prone to timing chain snap / sudden failure of the turbo so we've that to look forward to.

My Golf 1.6TDI, whilst hopefully one of the cars after the EGR valve issues which costs £1,000 to sort, has taken a water pump (leaking) and an engine wiring loom in the year odd i've owned it which isnt fantastic given its an Oct 2012 car. Fortunately both failures were under warranty or i'd have been out £1500.

My dad has a SEAT Ibiza 1.4 (as fitted to numerous VWs) and it had a new engine fitted last week at 4,000 miles due to piston slap.

Mercs 1996-2006 are prone to paint "spidering" when they get stone chipped which ultimately necessitates the affected panel to be resprayed.

BMW 3 series are prone to rot on the wheel arches necessitating new wings on older cars (pre 2004)

If you buy a BMW or VW or a german brand, do so because you like the car, certainly not because of any extra perceived reliability you might get because it doesnt exist.

motorguy

x90tsb wrote: »

Never rely on parkers valuations, ever, I work in the car trade and know NO ONE who use them. It's CAP or glass's these days.

It always was CAP or Glass's. Parkers is not a trade guide.

motorguy

londonTiger wrote: »

1) know the market price of the car you're buying.

Thats the trick

Its better to get £100 off a car well priced at £10,000 than £1,000 off the same car at another dealers but overpriced at £11,000