Payment taken from expired card

natscat84

I am absolutely hopping mad at NatWest for this.

Some time ago, I set up a magazine subscription for a weekly magazine. My debit card expired in October, and so I changed the details with the company to my new card. Today I log on to my internet banking to find that they've taken the monthly subscription twice - once from my new card and once from my old card. I called the company and they have refunded one of the charges so I'm not out of pocket, but would have been had I not spotted it. They were really good, and verified that everything should have been coming off the new card, as it did in November.

What I *am* absolutely fuming about is how have Natwest authorised a POS transaction (it said 'POS' on my statement) on an expired card? If I went in to a shop, I wouldn't be allowed to use my expired card to pay for something, yet a company who has my card details can charge it whenever they like, even if the card isn't live any more. Surely this defeats the object of expiring cards after a certain period for security and such like? Especially as the way it's shown on my statement, which looks like the subscription company have run the details through a point of sale machine/device which should have kicked out the transaction as the card is expired!

I am absolutely livid that they could do this and as such I now have absolutely no trust in Natwest. After all, does this mean that anyone I've given my DC details to (hotels/websites/retailers) can just decide to take out money as they like on an expired card?!?!

YorkshireBoy

That's how it works I'm afraid with CPAs. Your anger should be directed solely at the retailer. All banks would have done the same if presented with a transaction from a company you'd previously paid with the card, since the old and new cards are linked. That's why you can't just cancel your debit card to avoid paying your debts!

The good news for you is that you're entitled to a full refund from NatWest (including any consequential losses), even though it's not their fault, under the Payment Services Regulations, since the transaction was unauthorised.

stclair

Regretably NatWest have done nothing wrong in this instance as all debit cards are linked. It would be advisable to cancel the transaction with the retailer to prevent this happening again.

However in the meantime if you call the number below they will refund you.

Visa Debit Retailer Disputes - 0800 161 5166

Open 08.00 - 18.00 Monday to Friday.

If you have any outstanding card transactions from your old card with a hotel or whoever the payments can still be collected.

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/visa-account-updater-product-information-fact-sheet-for-merchants.pdf

YorkshireBoy

stclair wrote: »

if you call the number below they will refund you.

OP has already been refunded (I missed it first time around!).

stclair

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

OP has already been refunded (I missed it first time around!).

I must admit I skim read the first post. I was stood on a bus in traffic next people smelling like a wet dog!

JKSandy

What's irritating is some companies will just cancel your subcriptions/regular payments when your card expires.

lovinituk

So you're happy with the company who actually caused the problem in the first place by wrongly charging both cards? But you're angry at Natwest who did exactly what all the banks would have done?

I know the banks are not popular these days but blaming them for errors made by another company seems rather OTT!!!

ROY47

lesson of the day

check your accounts more often ?

natscat84

ROY47 - I check my IB daily (which is how I spotted this in the first place.

stclair - what I don't understand is how the cards are linked? This is why I'm very confused - the old card and the new card have completely different card numbers, security numbers, start and expiration dates. I couldn't turn around to the cashier in M&S and say 'oh sorry, this card has expired but can you run it anyway because it'll come out of the right account' because the machine will not let you do it. Yet somehow this system has done. It even says 'point of sale' transaction on my statement!
I'm also not entirely sure what a CPA is - my subscription is paid before my magazine is sent so it's not a debt, I'm not signed up to some sort of fixed term thing, and I still can't get my head wrapped around how the payment would even work because the card wouldn't work IRL. How come this company can still charge the old card, and not (for example) someone who happened to dig my old card out of the bin (had I not cut it into teeny tiny pieces) and decided to start doing repeated transactions with it? *THAT* is what I'm most worried about, since in this instance it seems that 'expired' seems to mean 'expired but only in some circumstances'

stclair

In the circumstances you have given the card would not work.

However it would work if your card has been previously used for a transaction and the money was still to be claimed.

It might be worth you reading the link I previously posted above so you get an understanding.

Archi_Bald

natscat84 wrote: »

what I don't understand is how the cards are linked? This is why I'm very confused - the old card and the new card have completely different card numbers, security numbers, start and expiration dates.

VISA and Mastercard hold the relationship between card number and bank account, even after the card has expired.

natscat84 wrote: »

I'm also not entirely sure what a CPA is

continuous payment authority

natscat84 wrote: »

How come this company can still charge the old card, and not (for example) someone who happened to dig my old card out of the bin (had I not cut it into teeny tiny pieces) and decided to start doing repeated transactions with it?

someone else can't use your card as you did cut it up. Nobody could make new purchases after the card has expired, anyway. Also, you can ask your bank to refund unauthorised transactions.