Tenancy Question

Tori_Bellatrix

Hi All

I hope someone can help me ..

If my tenancy transfers from a 6 month AST to a Periodical Tenancy, do the terms and conditions named in the original tenancy agreement still apply.

For example, in the AST it says that when I leave the property has to be professionally cleaned .. will this still apply on a periodical?

Hope this makes sense

Thanks, Tori

rosysparkle

Yes, the tenancy continues on the same terms as before save that it is now a rolling month by month contract and not a fixed term.

pcwilkins

Yes, but it is possible to interpret "professionally cleaned" as meaning "cleaned to a professional standard". Then you can clean it yourself and save yourself some cash.

Peter

scrummy_mummy_2

If the LL or previous tenant have had a professional company in to do the cleaning when their tenancy ceased and the receipts are attached to your inventory/can be produced then you will be required to have the work carried out to the same standard.

Gingernutmeg

Surely it's fairly easy to falsify receipts though? I'm curious about this as I'm currently getting towards the end of my tenancy and all of the correspondence from the LA states that our property needs to be cleaned to a professional standard, including the carpets. However, this wasn't done when we moved in and the property was filthy and this was noted on our inventory (by filthy I don't just mean dirty and dusty from being empty, I mean that it clearly hadn't been properly cleaned for a LONG time, floors, windows, oven, bathroom etc). So, what are we supposed to do? Obviously we're going to leave the property clean (much cleaner than it was when we moved in) but are we courting trouble if we don't wet clean the carpets and get the curtains cleaned, even if this wasn't done for us?

scrummy_mummy_2

Legally he has to supply receipts...otherwise getting you to clean his filthy carpets (at your expense) is called betterment.
Of course, there is nothing to stop him having an arrangement with such a supplier to (possibly) provide false receipts, but you are not legally required to use the same providers as he used previously and so can shop around.
I use a carpet cleaning company which is as cheap as chips and does an excellent job...it's actually cheaper and less agro than hiring a wet cleaner and doing it yourself
Try www.maxcarpetandupholsterycare.com
0800 40460800
Don't know if they are a franchise or just a local company (Berkshire)

It is a tough call because you are likely to be open to bully boy tactics and threats of court action/witholding your deposit if you fail to get it done. The law on this position is very clear...however, when it comes down to reality, it can often not matter a jot what the law says unless you are prepared to take the LL on and go to court to get your money he (may) withold back....

My advice...if the place was inventoried as filthy and there were no receipts for cleaning attached to your inventory.....you are not required, by law, to have professional in to clean it, but it may be worth hiring a wet cleaner from Homebase or HSS and having a quick go over to show willing (and provide the receipt to the agent to prove you have bothered!)

franklee

rosysparkle wrote: »

Yes, the tenancy continues on the same terms as before save that it is now a rolling month by month contract and not a fixed term.

Tori Bellatrix,

There is a rather nasty caveat to this advice (called the Sword of Damocles). Often agents, including rosysparkle, issue a Section 21 notice requiring possession near the start of the tenancy with the notice period ending at the end of the fixed term. This is done so that they can ask you to leave at any time after the fixed term without giving you any more notice. Unless something is done the S21 remains in force indefinitely. Strictly speaking this isn't a month by month tenancy as you've lost your rights to notice and in turn you don't have to give notice. After the fixed term they can ask you to leave at any time and you can leave at any time.

So do check to see if you were served an S21, it's easy to overlook it when you are busy moving in. If you were get it withdrawn IN WRITING so that you can stay on a periodic tenancy and have the right to be given two months notice (ending at the end of a period) should they wish you to leave. You would then need to give one months notice (ending at the end of a period) should you wish to leave.

Other terms do remain the same.

PS Why is the SoD often forgotten when explaining going on to a periodic tenancy

Bungarm2001

I personally have never given a section 21 notice with the contract at the start of a tenancy, but I can fully understand why landlords do this.

Unfortunately, its the same old story...the good guys ie good tenants get tarred with the same brush as the bad ones.

The section 21 notice does change certain rights after the expiry of the STA and makes it easier for the landlord to get the property back if he has non-payers or needs the tenants out for any other good reason, for instance if they or their visitors have trashed the place, been a nuisance to the nieghbours (believe me, these things happen all the time) or sub-let.

If you and your landlord (or agent in some cases) are civil and reasonable with each other and above all keep the lines of communication open, then you should have no problem.

Not all landlords are out there to get you or stitch you up!!:A

Here is a website explaining section 21 fully. http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-factsheets/factsheets/factsheet-21---section-21---notice-requiring-possession-of-an-assured-shorthold-tenancy.html

Notlob

Hi Tori,

If my tenancy transfers from a 6 month AST to a Periodical Tenancy, do the terms and conditions named in the original tenancy agreement still apply.

Yes

For example, in the AST it says that when I leave the property has to be professionally cleaned .. will this still apply on a periodical?

An AST is a contract between parties of the tenancy agreement and if it states that you must have the property professionally cleaned (I agree with pcwilkins comment) then this is what you agreed to do. However, the OFT have guidelines on these matters. What it should come down to is that you should return the property in the same condition that you found it, allowing for W&T. Cleaning is not W&T in my opinion.

It is wise to make reference to the condition of properties at the start of tenancy to protect yourself in the event of a dispute.

My advice...if the place was inventoried as filthy and there were no receipts for cleaning attached to your inventory.....you are not required, by law, to have professional in to clean

Not so, but without evidence, the LL is not in a strong position.

PS Why is the SoD often forgotten when explaining going on to a periodic tenancy

Maybe because most LL do not use it! I am not a fan of issuing Section 21's unless I want possession, and have only done this when there is negative history with the tenant and they have one "final chance" to "come good"

Notlob

franklee

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

I personally have never given a section 21 notice with the contract at the start of a tenancy, but I can fully understand why landlords do this.

It's common practise but thankfully not everyone does it, glad to hear you are one of those.

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

Unfortunately, its the same old story...the good guys ie good tenants get tarred with the same brush as the bad ones.

The section 21 notice does change certain rights after the expiry of the STA and makes it easier for the landlord to get the property back if he has non-payers or needs the tenants out for any other good reason, for instance if they or their visitors have trashed the place, been a nuisance to the nieghbours (believe me, these things happen all the time) or sub-let.

The S21 notice does not require a reason, it's a no fault no reason needed notice. It is not conditional in any way, and if the landlord makes it conditional on the tenant's behaviour then he is effectively withdrawing it anyway. Therefore the fact that further notice is NOT required from either landlord or tenant applies regardless. This is because the S21 was the notice and the notice period has now expired!

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

If you and your landlord (or agent in some cases) are civil and reasonable with each other and above all keep the lines of communication open, then you should have no problem.

This is often said in realation to the SoD and I never quite understood what it means. It's a clear cut issue to me that the paperwork issued by the landlord stands and that is that. If the landlord wished the tenant to remain then he can get this agreed with the tenant and withdraw the S21 notice IN WRITING. Failure to do this means the notice stands and cuts both ways in that neither landlord or tenant have to give any more notice.

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

Not all landlords are out there to get you or stitch you up!!

Here is a website explaining section 21 fully. http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-fac...d-tenancy.html

It doesn't explain the SoD as that is a loophole in the way the landlord serves the S21 notice. I.e. the landlord serves this notice routinely to all tenants even when he doesn't want the tenant to leave! This is not the way it was meant to be used.

franklee

Notlob wrote: »

Maybe because most LL do not use it! I am not a fan of issuing Section 21's unless I want possession, and have only done this when there is negative history with the tenant and they have one "final chance" to "come good"

Notlob

Thanks. I certainly get the impression that many agents and landlords do use the SoD approach to serving S21's but again I'm glad that you don't