'Is it time to change energy pricing to ‘kettles boiled’?' blog discussion

Nada666

And no need to rename the standing charge - but it should certainly be quoted as monthly or annual figure rather than the current idiotic standard of 26p per day.

John_Pierpoint

Unless you pretend that you need special rugged type light bulbs, you are not allowed to buy 100 watt light bulbs anymore ? !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs

I think I have recently signed up for 17p a day standing charge, probably plus 5% tax,.possibly plus an environmental surcharge tax too and now a keep-your-powertstation-available for emergencies tax ?

Nada666

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Unless you pretend that you need special rugged type light bulbs, you are not allowed to buy 100 watt light bulbs anymore ? !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs

But that is sort of exactly what I mean - you should be able to explain Watts and kiloWatts and kWhs through discussing the savings using a 100 W bulb versus a 10 W CFL bulb.

[Deleted User]

It's enough to make you weep, I despair that food is already measured in portions for the benefit of those who can't be arsed to learn what a kg is, then we have height measured in Eiffel Towers or double decker buses, and area measured in football pitches....

If someone wants to rationalise the measurement how about using the international standard: Joules. (For that matter it wouldn't be a bad idea if the food industry did the same, instead of persisting with Calories.) As far as the standing charge goes, it's regressive, it needs abolishing.

Nada666

How's this for compromise? Instead of pronouncing out kWh as "kilowatthour" simply pronounce it as an acronym "klwow"! That sounds like 'kettle' but isn't so inconveniently small.

Eco_Miser

Nada666 wrote: »

And no need to rename the standing charge - but it should certainly be quoted as monthly or annual figure rather than the current idiotic standard of 26p per day.

Since actual charging periods vary, the standing charge needs to be a daily rate for simple calculation and comparison. However, also quoting the annual amount would save everyone from multiplying the rate by 365.

DaleN

"Meter rental" will be taken literally by people who will then complain about the extortionate cost just to rent the meter. Agreed, "standing charge" isn't terribly meaningful, but "fixed charge" or "daily charge" would be fine.

Better still, I know you explicitly don't want to change the way companies charge, but the fixed charge would be more useful quoted as an annual amount instead of daily because then you would know you're paying at least this much per year, plus usage.

"Kettles boiled" is only useful if you're comparing kettles. It adds nothing if you're trying to compare washing machines or buy a light bulb, and when you're comparing tariffs the only thing that really matters is the money. The meter tells you kWh so just stick with that standard. Publish a list of typical examples if people need help (leaving a light on = x kWh, "B" rated washing machine = y kWh).

Call it "usage charge". This might also help people understand why their monthly payment changed even though they're on a "fixed" tariff. (Hint: it's the cost per kWh which is fixed, but you still have to pay for what you used.)

My pet peeve is the gas meter to kWh conversion, which has to be multiplied and divided by about 5 different things. Your meter type and connection size don't change after your first bill and, although the "calorific constant" varies a bit, it doesn't make much difference. So just publish a single multiplier from meter units to kWh for a rough/average estimate.

DaleN

I mentioned this briefly in a previous reply, but want to expand because there are many people who don't understand what a "fixed" tariff actually means. I didn't either for a long time, and I found it surprisingly difficult to find out.

First off, a "fixed" energy tariff doesn't mean a fixed monthly cost no matter what. It doesn't mean "unlimited usage". It's not like an unlimited mobile phone plan.

With a fixed tariff you still have to pay for every unit (kWh) of energy you use, as determined by your meter reading. All that happens is the provider estimates how much you will use over the year and divides by 12 to give you a monthly amount. If you use more, eventually your cost will go up. They usually re-evaluate once or twice a year, and this can happen even before the end of your "fixed" tariff. If the difference isn't very much they probably won't bother changing your monthly cost, but don't worry, they'll make up for it when your tariff ends and you switch to another.

So what part of the tariff is "fixed"? It's the cost per unit of energy (kWh). All that they are guaranteeing is that the unit cost won't change until the end of the tariff. If you use more, you still have to pay for more units. Whereas on a non-fixed or standard tariff they can change the cost per unit at any time.

threespires

I did an apprenticeship in an electricity board office in 1980s. At that time some tariffs did show a "meter rental" figure but also had standing charge (service charge) as well. The meter rental covered the machine and the standing charge was a contribution towards the supply grid. At least things are a bit simpler today!

Personally I would keep to "metered units" of something similar rather than create an amount for a notional kettle (there is a fortunately a wide consumer choice for kettles).


I concur with other posters that the gas meter billing is very hard to understand - surely with today's digital smart tech it should be possible to have a meter that tells us what we are spending in kilowatt-hours and call that something like "units consumed"

Gerry1

Both ideas are DAFT !

'Meter Rental 'is confusing because people will think they can avoid it by BUYING their own meter and plugging it in like a corded phone. 'Standing Charge' is more accurate and well understood; if you're renting anything, it's the transmission infrastructure and power stations, not the meter.

kWh is also perfectly understandable, e.g. a 100W bulb for 10 hours is obviously equal to 1-bar electric fire (1000W) for 1 hour. But how many weekly washes or editions of Coronation Street are there in a Kettle Boil? And an electric Kettle Boil won't necessarily be the same as one on a gas hob, and there could be one cupful or half a dozen in the kettle.

You also need a common energy unit to compare gas usage with electricity, so cubic feet would have to be converted to kWh and then to Kettle Boils, making it even more complicated.

It ain't broke, so DON'T FIX IT. :mad: