'Is it time to change energy pricing to ‘kettles boiled’?' blog discussion

Former_MSE_Paloma

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's "Is it time to change energy pricing to ‘meter rent’ and ‘kettles boiled’?" Blog.

Please click 'post reply' to discuss below.

WestonDave

Meter rent I could live with, however I think the "kettles boiled" is a dodgy comparison because of the massive potential variation in the power of the kettle and the amount of water put in. Someone boiling 1 cup would obviously use a lot less energy than someone boiling 8. Whilst I realise that the intention is to use a standardised illustrative amount, I think the potential for confusion is massive when someone boils their 8 cup kettle and it costs them 2 or 3 times the expected electricity cost.


In essence 1kWh is a pretty standard unit - what perhaps needs explaining is what that does - e.g. boils so many litres or mugs of water, runs a 2kw fan heater for half an hour, runs your 10kw shower for 6 minutes. Maybe printing something like that on a bill would be more helpful. That might also help people understand how to save energy safely - cutting back on the heating but spending 20 minutes in the shower isn't as good as having a shorter shower and leaving the heating on for as long as before.


The bigger difficulty arises over gas but until we get more roll out of smart meters that can instantly convert m3 to kWh's its hard to see much progress there.

ScarletBea

I'd hate "kettles boiled", I don't get it. Not only because my immediate reaction was the same as WestonDave above (a full kettle? a half kettle?), but also because it has zero connection with where you actually spend your energy (the majority in boiling water? really?), and also it would make the UK the laughing stock of the world...

I'm surprised you're not asking for water pricing to be measured in "baths filled", or a similar stupid thing, instead of cubic metres... After all, if people don't get a basic thing like kWh then they don't get m3 either, right?

But we all know it's always better to dumb things down instead of teaching people --> this is sarcasm...

Silican

From our previous suppliers, who's motto seemed to be 'if it's bungleable, we'll bungle it' we switched to Ovo. They had a worrying missionary zeal about them that turned out to be pure facade. Neither company have yet informed us of their bank-like predilection for pilfering. Only in an online bill seen today was there mention of a 'rebate', giving it the aura of a kindness. No mention of previous suppliers or faulty/rigged meters was made. Whatever the motivation, I was perplexed by the method chosen for refunding what is, in effect, overcharging. The £12 is deducted from the total after the addition of VAT. I make no claims for financial expertise, but this seems to favour the transgressors. Moreover, I have just discovered that I hold have been sent a letter at least 42 days before the end of my current tariff - no letter. To top it all off, I go to the trouble of sending them actual meter readings every month, they, however, stick to estimated readings unless actual readings provide a higher yield. Are these experiences unique?

wiggers

How about television-hours instead of kWh? Say an average TV is 250W then the new unit will be exactly 1/4 of the old one, which will make conversion much easier. Boiling a kettle is highly variable, as it depends very much on whether you fill it brim-full every time or just enough for a mug of tea.

But my overall feeling is this is a bit of dumbing down. Is the concept of a kWh so difficult to grasp? It was chosen because one bar of an electric fire, ubiquitous a few decades ago, was 1kW, so the unit was one bar for one hour. Now the TV is the ubiquitous appliance so that makes more sense. But it needs to be a simple conversion old-new.

zerog

wiggers wrote: »

How about television-hours instead of kWh? Say an average TV is 250W then the new unit will be exactly 1/4 of the old one, which will make conversion much easier. Boiling a kettle is highly variable, as it depends very much on whether you fill it brim-full every time or just enough for a mug of tea.

But my overall feeling is this is a bit of dumbing down. Is the concept of a kWh so difficult to grasp? It was chosen because one bar of an electric fire, ubiquitous a few decades ago, was 1kW, so the unit was one bar for one hour. Now the TV is the ubiquitous appliance so that makes more sense. But it needs to be a simple conversion old-new.

I don't have a TV.

Mandelbrot

Daft idea.

If you really want to pursue the idea further, then I would suggest 'fixed charge' is better than 'standing charge', and just replace 'kilowatt hours' by something straightforward like 'electricity units' (1 kWh = 1 electricity unit).

Norman_Castle

Meter rental is ok. Kettles boiled is patronising. Kwh is accurate but confusing and meaningless to many.
I suspect bills are deliberately misleading. The first page of my previous suppliers bill would state. "Your gas bill -£34.20." In large letters. Note the minus sign. The truth of this bill would be I am £34.20 in credit. They are designed to confuse so the customer accepts higher dd payments.
There is too much focus on monthly dd amounts which hides real costs.

Ectophile

"Meter rental" just sounds wrong to me. People will be asking why they have to pay so much every month for a meter that hasn't been changed in years. If I'm going to pay for the meter, I at least want a new one! "Standing charge" has been around for as long as I can remember, but perhaps something like "maintenance charge" might be more informative.

I agree with the others that "kettles boiled" isn't very helpful. It will depend so much on how much water you put in the kettle, and even how cold the mains water was. I can also see people trying to save money by boiling the kettle as little as possible, then still wondering why their bills are so high. How about "One kilowatt heaters left on for one hour". We could even shorten that to something nice and snappy, such as kilowatt-hours!

corbyboy

So how do you convert "kettles boiled" to calculate the cost of running other electrical items?

If I know the price per kilowatt hour I can work out how much a 1kW iron costs to run.

If I know the cost per "kettle boiled" how do I work out much the iron costs to run? You can't without converting back to kWh at some point in the calculation.

Eco_Miser

"I never boil a kettle, so why am I being charged?" will be a question at least some people would be asking.

Mandelbrot has suggested 'electricity units', once upon a time, they were 'Board of Trade Units', 1 unit = 1kWh, but without the then almost unknown kilo prefix or watt power rating.

The standing charge covers much more than the meter, so calling it 'meter rental' is asking for trouble as trade description apart from anything else. 'Line Rental' might be a better description.

The 'television-hours' suggestion is also flawed as TVs vary widely in both size and technology.