The Saga Continues - Please Help - UKPC - Not Parked Within Bay Markings - London

GloriousBritain

Firstly, a HUGE thank you to all the regulars. I've spent the last day or so trawling through the various threads to get a better understanding of what I am up against. It's great to know that you guys are out there trying to help people you've never met.

So here goes my story:

My mum parked her car at the end of October 2014 in a car park outside a big retail shop in London.

• She parked her vehicle, taking up a few inches of the neighbouring bay (afterwards we checked, and this violation is mentioned on the T&C).
• This is a free car park for customers.
• She was in and out in ten minutes.
• She has the receipt to prove that she made a purchase 8 minutes after her parking charge was issued.
• UKPC had only begun enforcing parking at the site a few months earlier.
• She finds a parking charge on her windscreen, and was wrongly advised by co-workers to bin it and ignore the charge.

Fast forward to 9th December 2014 and I see a final reminder (14 days left) letter on her kitchen table waiting to be binned.

After visiting the car park with her, and after reading the threads on this forum, I have compiled the following letter to UKPC. Please let me know if I’m doing the right thing, or whether I have omitted any details.

To whom this may concern,

I challenge this PCN as keeper of the car on the following grounds:

1. A. As the Registered Keeper I have recently visited the car park in question, and having seen the parking space as shown in the image taken from photographic evidence associated with the Parking Charge, I submit that the signs cannot be seen by the driver.
B. I have in my possession photographs of the car park, and solid photographic evidence proving that drivers are not given the chance to read the sign at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle, specifically in the particular bay in question.
C. With regards to any signs that are supposedly placed at the entrance of the car park; the sign is not placed in a manner which makes it readable by drivers without their needing to look away from the road ahead. Furthermore, the sign is not placed at the actual entrance to the car park, but rather at the turning off from the main road.
D. As such the driver could not have been made aware of the terms and conditions of parking, and certainly did not agree to them. This Parking Charge is essentially an unsolicited invoice with no merit whatsoever.

2. I shop at the retailer fairly frequently. The staff have informed me that UKPC have only begun enforcing the parking a few months prior to the alleged parking violation. You have imposed a liability where none previously existed. Surely you should consider a grace period to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarize themselves with the changes?!

3. A. The Parking Charge of £100 is clearly a penalty.
B. The car park in question is a FREE CAR PARK for customers of the retailer. There was no loss of revenue to the landowner, as there is no charge for parking there.
C. Having looked at the additional images relating to this Parking Charge that can be viewed online on your website, it is clear that there are a number empty parking spaces adjacent to the bay in question, and indeed in other parts of the car park.
D. Taking all of the above into account, I fail to see how the Parking Charge of £100 represents a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

4. A. I cannot understand what right you have to send me this Parking Charge as you have not presented any evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
B. In your Notice To Keeper you do not name the landowner as the true creditor.

5. At the time of writing this letter to yourselves, I am also sending a letter to the retailer and landowner complaining about your ludicrously harsh actions. This was a FREE car park, with EMPTY parking bays next to the vehicle in question. I find it shocking that the retailer would subject customers to that kind of shopping experience. It is due to such underhanded treatment that more and more customers are turning to online shopping whilst brick and mortar shops are closing every day.

6. I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


Should I mention the fact that I have a receipt of a purchase made at the shop? Or does that give me away as the driver?
Please let me know if I've made any mistakes, as I'm quite keen to send it first thing in the morning. Thank you all so much!

Guys_Dad

You should try to find out if the supermarket is the landowner. If they only lease the land, then at the POPLA appeal, demand not only that the contract with the supermarket is shown but also any contract between landowner and leaseholder that allows leaseholder to engage a PPC

If a landowner's rights in a block of flats trumps a leaseholder in other threads, the what's sauce for the goose.........

GloriousBritain

Thanks, GuysDad. The retailer has told me that they do not own the car park site. There are other shops that have access to that car park, which backs up the retailer's claim.

The retailer is somewhat reluctant to contact the landowner on my behalf, and refuses to supply me with their contact details.

I'm not sure how to do a Google search to find the identity of the landowner, as advised elsewhere on this forum.

When issued with a POPLA, I will insist on knowing who the landowner is.

Guys_Dad

No point in finding landowner as it is a multi-occupancy site and the landowner will probably have contracted with the PPC. I would use a forum based standard appeal and forget the bits about car park being half empty as that is similar principle to claiming that speeding on an empty motorway is ok.

The honest truth is mum parked badly and whether or not there were any signs up, you know and i know you don't straddle parking bays, particularly if there are lots of empty ones ! So stay away from the actuality and go for the technical appeal and you should win.

GloriousBritain

I was mentioning the bit about the car park being half empty because I thought that it strengthened my argument about the PCN being a penalty and not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

Have sent the letter off. Will keep you posted!

Thanks so much!

GloriousBritain

So, I sent the letter above and got a certificate of posting. I have received no reply from UKPC.

My mum received a nasty looking letter today from Debt Recovery Plus charging her £160 by 12/01/2015.

If no payment is made by then they will recommend that court action should be taken.

I was expecting to receive a POPLA code.

Would be most grateful if you could advise me of how best to deal with this now.

bod1467

All covered a million and one times.

Do UKPC have an email address? If yes then email them a copy of your appeal and tell them that you have proof of posting for your appeal.

Also email BPA and complain that their member is ignoring the appeal you made and is continuing to chase this via a debt collector (in clear breach of BPA code of practice). Tell the BPA that this is not the first time UKPC have done this - a little internet research shows that this appears to be their default approach at the moment.