Parking in a disabled bay

cjw32

Hi,

I haven't actually received a notice (yet) but wanted some advice from you guys that seem to know all there is to know about these PCNs.

I went shopping earlier today at a retail park. It has its own car park with the usual PCN warning signs dotted around for overstaying and what not.

I couldn't find a space as it was heaving. There were a ton of spaces for the disabled though, so I pulled into one of those and got out of the car. I was only going to get a few bits and I wouldn't be very long, but also, my other half and newborn baby were in the car. As I pulled up, she was going to get in the driver's seat and go and re-park the car until I came out of the shop.

When I got back (maybe 15-20 minutes later), she was still driving around, so when she came back past the shop I was in, I got back in the car and we drove off.

She later said that when I had gotten out, the baby woke up and started screaming. She checked her nappy and what not and made sure the baby was OK. While she was doing this, a 'traffic warden' looking type man stood in front of her car and 'started playing with his phone'. She isn't sure if he was taking photos or not as she was concentrating on calming the baby down before setting off again. He didn't put anything on the window though.

Once the baby was calm (maybe 5-10 minutes later) with the 'traffic warden' still stood there, she got back in the driver's seat and drove off.

After telling me this, I can just imagine now getting a PCN through from whatever company runs that car park with a fine for parking in a disabled space.

How likely is that to happen?
Do they need to put a notice on the window?
Does the car need to be left unattended, therefore actually parked, or does the fact that she was with the car negate that?

Guys_Dad

1. Possible
2. No
3. No

The_Deep

I couldn't find a space as it was heaving. There were a ton of spaces for the disabled though,

There always are.

Some will chastise you for your dastardly deed, I do not, I think that private firms and councils over-provide disabled spaces, could this be because Councils refuse to issue blue badges to those who need them?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5059915

cjw32

The_Deep wrote: »

I couldn't find a space as it was heaving. There were a ton of spaces for the disabled though,

There always are.

Some will chastise you for your dastardly deed, I do not, I think that private firms and councils over-provide disabled spaces, could this be because Councils refuse to issue blue badges to those who need them?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5059915

It wasn't a council run car park, it was private. However I suppose the council is still responsible through their planning laws, forcing these shopping centres to provide so many spaces.

What's the usual process with these sorts of things? Do they have to have really good photographic evidence that there's no blue badge?

I would imagine that he would need pretty good photos to prove that no badge was visible. Although he may have taken a picture of the front of the car (my other half can't be sure), he definitely didn't go round the car taking lots of pictures.

ohreally

cjw32 wrote: »

It wasn't a council run car park, it was private. However I suppose the council is still responsible through their planning laws, forcing these shopping centres to provide so many spaces.

"Shopping and leisure centres must provide 6 per cent of their spaces for the disabled if their car parks contain less than 200 spaces.

For car parks with more than 200 spaces, 4 per cent must be allocated for the disabled".

Half_way

I went shopping earlier today at a retail park. It has its own car park with the usual PCN warning signs dotted around for overstaying and what not.

I couldn't find a space as it was heaving. There were a ton of spaces for the disabled though, so I pulled into one of those and got out of the car. I was only going to get a few bits and I wouldn't be very long, but also, my other half and newborn baby were in the car. As I pulled up, she was going to get in the driver's seat and go and re-park the car until I came out of the shop.

If you entered the disabled space solely for the reason to swap drivers then thats waht should have happened. As soon as the driver has been swapped ( should take minute if that ) then the space should have been vacated.
If the new driver then remained in that space then you can discharge your liability by naming them should you receive a parking charge notice.
If they arent happy with any parking charge notice then tell them to look to the sticky thread on here.

There is no excuse for deliberate abuse of a parking bay thats intended for those who genuinely require it ( irrespective of weather they have a blue badge or not ) However i also find it completely repugnant that a private car parking company should pocket the cash - read the sticky on parking charges and then beat them at popla/whatever.
Then donate some money to a disability charity,, or better still donate a little bit of your time - if possible may I suggest that you help with a charity that provides transport to those with mobility issues to the shops etc.

Those who deliberatly abuse disabled spaces gove the parking companies the oxygen to exist, and then persecute, harass and intimidate the able bodied and disabled alike

The_Deep

I have no doubt that they provide the legal minimum, my concern is that they provide far more than the rules lay down.

Can you quote an instance where a provider has been prosecuted for over provision? No? Thought not.

ohreally

The_Deep wrote: »

Can you quote an instance where a provider has been prosecuted for over provision? No? Thought not.

Why on earth would there be a prosecution for exceeding a duty placed on the duty holder?

cjw32

ohreally wrote: »

Why on earth would there be a prosecution for exceeding a duty placed on the duty holder?

Yeah, that doesn't really make sense prosecuting for over provision.

Though, over provision I think is part of the reason people resent the spaces and sometimes disabled people. Along with the recent case on the buses. Ridiculous that the disabled seem to believe they can demand special treatment, and that their rights trump all others.

MarkyMarkD

cjw32 wrote: »

Ridiculous that the disabled seem to believe they can demand special treatment, and that their rights trump all others.

But they don't. They simply expect that DISABLED spaces on buses (which are at least correctly labelled in my area) should be available to them rather than blocked (as in the case you refer to) by a rude mother/father with a BABY PRAM or PUSHCHAIR which they refused to fold up, and which hence occupied the whole DISABLED space, leaving the disabled person unable to leave the bus stop.

4consumerrights

cjw32 wrote: »

Yeah, that doesn't really make sense prosecuting for over provision.

Though, over provision I think is part of the reason people resent the spaces and sometimes disabled people. Along with the recent case on the buses. Ridiculous that the disabled seem to believe they can demand special treatment, and that their rights trump all others.

To be honest - I think that you may be over stating the "over provision" somewhat. This is a very busy time of the year and contrary to the propaganda fed - the fact that only disabled parking bays were free demonstrates that the majority of the public DO respect the need to leave those spaces free for those who need them the most.

However this is nothing to do with displaying a blue badge which is not recognised on private land. The provision of the disabled parking bays is a provision by the retailers to meet their legal obligations under the Equality Act to avoid discrimination.

By the same token however discriminating against pregnant and nursing mothers is also covered under the Act however this does not grant rights though to park in disabled bays.

That said - do you know which parking company is in operation at the retail park visited.

By the description given - I would suspect that this could be UKCPS or Premier Park who quite readily take photos without placing a PCN on the vehicle.

Can you also confirm that this occurred in England or Wales.


You will need to wait to see if you receive a PCN through the post.

Your appeal will not be made on any of what you described in the OP.


PS ignore the Deep today - he is smarting at not being granted a blue badge at the moment - I am sure that he will take the matter further.