Parking Eye - Two Saints Retail Park Ormskirk PCN

Blaz

Hi all - Long story short a sick and upset toddler made us leave this car park 20 minutes after the free hour. We had been shopping in the retail park too and can maybe provide proof of that (if it matters).

We received a PCN in the post last week which includes pictures of us arriving and leaving. I almost paid it as I thought it was still a council run car park until my uncle informed me it wasn't so I decided to do some digging and here I am.

Id like to fight this as I think its disgusting that I was shopping on the local premises and having spent my hard earned cash I'm then slapped with an extremely large unfair fine - my only crime, choosing to shop at those retailers and having a sick baby. I've read the newbie thread and I believe "Not Genuine Pre-Estimate Of Loss" (GPEOL) seems to be the best course of action.

So my question to you guys -
Does the below template seem ok to send as it is or do I need to edit it (other than the obvious edits) and should I appeal to Parking Eye online?

Thank you all in advance!

PS we have until 13th to pay the £60 so if anyone thinks they have a strong case and we should just pay please let me know asap.


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
f). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice with as much merit as the publicly-derided £100 taken unlawfully from customers by a dingy Blackpool Hotel.

Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate.

Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


{the registered keeper's name}

Fruitcake

That looks good to go but may not fit in the 3000 character limit that I think parking lie impose for online appeals. If not, remove the paragraph beginning, "your clients should be thoroughly ashamed ..."

Normally a PPC will automatically reject the first appeal but recently parking lie have crumbled at stage one when they see a Money Saving Expert standard appeal because they know they will lose at PoPLA and it will cost them money.

bluetoffee1878

In this case I believe the PPC will uphold the challenge (sorry I cannot bring myself to use the word appeal)
This seems to be the model for forum base challenges with this PPC saves them £27 + vat
Hope yours works out as well as mine did.
Please complete the thread with your result when yo get it

Blaz

bluetoffee1878 wrote: »

In this case I believe the PPC will uphold the challenge

Well from what ive read isnt that normal for them to come back with some scary strongly worded letter filled with legal jargon, then you go down the POPLA route?

Coupon-mad

No, not from PE now. They give up sooner. So you just need to cut out some of my waffle from that template! Please don't dither or worry about what to remove, just do your own shorter version and submit it to PE online.

Blaz

Had a reminder letter from PE reminding me to pay the fine to get the reduced charge - reminded me to do this.

Before I fill in the appeal form online I just wanted to ask is there any point me providing a receipt with my appeal, if i do should ensure i say the driver has provided me with a receipt to prove they used the shops at the retail park?

Thanks

Umkomaas

You can provide the receipt if it's from one of the retailers attached to the car park. >£30 seems to be the threshold, but send whatever you have (redacted of personal data).

But don't delay getting in that appeal within PE timescales; if you miss them you're staring down the barrel of small claims court papers.

For sure, don't reveal who the driver might have been.

Don't hang around!

Blaz

Thanks Umkomaas - How long do you have to appeal these things just out of interest?

Umkomaas

Blaz wrote: »

Thanks Umkomaas - How long do you have to appeal these things just out of interest?

It will be printed on the PE paperwork. Normally around 28 days, but no point going to the wall over it. Just get your appeal in by (or before) the deadline and get the cancellation in fairly short order after that!

Unless you're a belligerent type prepared to stick two fingers up to them and their deadlines and take them on at the small claims court.

Your call!

Blaz

Yeah i'll defo be doing it the easy way and not leaving it that late! Ive got plenty of time ... just trimming the template to submit online and trying to dig out a receipt from last month! Thanks again everyone!

Blaz

Appeal/challenge has been sent! Only thing I added to the template is where it says I challenge the PCN on these grounds - I added the driver of the vehicle was shopping on the premises, please find receipt attached.

Thank you all for your help - ill keep you all updated, fingers crossed!