Worry about house purchase and steel beam

lil_old_me

I am hoping someone can help me.

A RSJ was installed in a house I am hoping to buy, which was apparently installed 2 years ago when the vendors redid the kitchen. Looks like there is no paperwork for the beam from the sellers which my solicitor is chasing up.

In the room directly above the RSJ there are a few cracks, which are above the door (it actually looks like it has moved a bit) and a few minor cracks in the walls. You can see there has been movement as the architrave has moved and is lower on one side (at the top of the door, where the crack from the edge of the door is).

Should I walk away now or assume it has been 2 years already so is likely to be ok?

It has not fallen down in 2 years. So could these be settlement cracks from the beam?

tomgarvie

Get structural engineer or good surveyor to have a look at it. The beam could be fitted incorrectly or it is "sinking" due to lack of support.

lil_old_me

Thanks. Is it common for this to happen above a beam?

wallbash

structural engineer is going to cost money, your surveyor ( when prompted ) will check it out.

lil_old_me

Thank you.

I will ask the surveyor. Just so I know though before that and we progress with the sale, is it normal for a bit of movement after a load bearing wall is removed and a beam installed?

snowcat75

Cracks will always appear above a door frame even if its just a stud wall as buildings move and twist differently where the frame meets the wall.


The RSJ should be a UB, or Colum. RSJs as a standard structural section haven't existed for about 20 years, the beam should be set on 2 pads on the wall roughly 200-400mm on a course of engineering bricks and then suitable packing, Its common to place 2 beams side by side and then bolt the two together, mostly due to the weight of placing a single beam in.


Much depends on what its holding and supporting above it, and what ties into it.

lil_old_me

Thank you.

Seems like a single beam to me rather than a double. Should that be a cause of concern? Are single breams not really used?

wallbash

lil_old_me wrote: »

Thank you.

Seems like a single beam to me rather than a double. Should that be a cause of concern? Are single breams not really used?

Have been used for years, we called them RSJ , they worked fine, been holding houses up successfully for decades.

mostly due to the weight of placing a single beam in.

I take it builders are getting weaker??
Had fun putting a 10inch by 17 half footer in the loft of a terrace house, just by muscle power alone....I was a LOT younger.

Furts

tomgarvie wrote: »

Get structural engineer or good surveyor to have a look at it. The beam could be fitted incorrectly or it is "sinking" due to lack of support.

But the Structural Engineer will not be able to comment without exposing the steels. Even then it will probably not be possible to inspect the bearings - these will be covered with plaster. So there will be caveats, and the permission of the vendor would be required. If the original work was "dodgy" then the odds are not favourable that this permission will be given.

Basically, was it the intention of the vendor to evade good practice, and the Building Regulations, when the steel was built in?

snowcat75

lil_old_me wrote: »

Thank you.

Seems like a single beam to me rather than a double. Should that be a cause of concern? Are single breams not really used?

It doesn't really matter but often the drawings will want an entire support to the wall thickness, so it's allot easier to put 2 beams rather than one massive one, if it's really supportive web braces may also be added.

It is as long as a piece of string but look at worse case scenario if it is botched and it needs a compleate re work then it's not going to be massively expensive, decent builder could do the job in a couple of days.

wallbash wrote: »

Have been used for years, we called them RSJ , they worked fine, been holding houses up successfully for decades.



I take it builders are getting weaker??
Had fun putting a 10inch by 17 half footer in the loft of a terrace house, just by muscle power alone....I was a LOT younger.

RSJs are a fine structural section, but they are not commonly used any more UB and UC are used, It's important to note as there structural characteristics are different, due to the web and flange shape, UB offer more strength for weight on a straight load but are also more elastic so offer little integrity in certain loadings which is why columns are also used.

Elasticity of modulus is the formula used for sizing of materials and it basically means working the maximin load, then the deflection of the material and adding a safety factor, which varies across the application, but safety factor is quite high on a domestic building.

I'm not a builder, but I did cut my teeth as a fabricator welder and engineer. Much of it on porta frames.

lil_old_me

Thanks everyone!

So IF it is a bit dodgy, then I am not going to find out until I have purchased he house.

It has been mentioned that it is not a big deal to redo if necessary - is that the consensus please?