IAS second stage appeal

romantix

Hi all - thanks for all your help with successful appeal last time! I will try and post up details of descision in that post asap coupon mad.


As before, i followed the advice of the newbies thread and used the template to appeal directly to capital 2 coast adding, as advised through the thread, a short paragraph about contacting waitress (the car park owner) directly to complain as a valued customer (I have yet to do this). They sent me a NTK 99 days after alledged contravention, I sent this first stage appeal via their website and received confirmation of receipt by email. I then received a letter from a debt collection agency (DRP) demanding payment approx 2 months later stating that C2C had recently written to me about unpaid parking charge which they had not received payment (no mention of appeal). Standard CCJ threats. I then received another letter from Debt recovery plus ltd for the same amount referring to letter incorrectly dated/referenced demanding payment with some extra threats. I originally had a windscreen ticket.

My questions that maybe you might be able to guide me on are: how do I use the lack of response re appeal to help me? is there specific section of prot of freedom act I can refer to for this? Am I right in this sense of now taking it straight to IAS second stage, or should I email C2C informing that I have received no rejected appeal notification? They have not provided me with a unique IAS reference code which they state in NTK that they would in instance of a rejected appeal - how can I reference this error? Also, can I use the in correct info from the debt people against them, or should I ignore them in my IAS appeal?


As before, they are in breach of para 8 as the NTK was not received until 99 days later via post so will use that again.


It is a supermarket car park, I don't now own the car (thankfully!) so getting pictures of the signs would be difficult as is away from my home; but do you think this is important though to do?


my internets running slow, will get pics up of letters and pics asap.

Any help would be much appreciated!!

thank you again in advance!

4consumerrights

HI Romantix

Firstly - I would edit your opening post suitably .....

They are out of time under POFA for Keeper liability.

You state that you submitted an online appeal and they acknowledged this - the rejection in that case of the first appeal would also be by the same email.

The URN (unique reference numbers ) for the IAS were stopped some time ago - at this moment I cannot recall the exact date. This means that only the charge number and VRM are required for the appeal.

It is now considered that the appeal system is far from independent as there is no evidence of who considers the appeal and it is one sided as the motorist never sees any evidence from the parking company.


You could complain to the IPC that no rejection was received for the second stage of the process and copy in the DVLA

Options - make a formal complaint to the landowner to get the charge cancelled. - this is a definite Must.

You are now in the debt chain cycle - either deny the debt or ignore all letters and make no contact.

If you receive a Letter before claim (Probably from Gladstones) or actual court claim - then come back.


Keep all letters as they have six years.

romantix

Hello 4consumerrights/all!

Unfortunately, i need to follow up on your request for me to come back if I receive a letter from Gladstones .. which was dated as approx 10days ago so need to make some response I assume within the 14days they request.

Here is a copy of the letter:

http://tinypic.com/r/200ttap/9

and original NTK:

http://tinypic.com/r/2rrnlg9/9

The issue is where my car is not wholly parked in a marked bay - happy to private message you with photos of this I took at the time where my tyre is on the white line, but my tail hanging over. Do you know anything about the law on this ie what is in and out? I did find something that in relation to what the council goes by the tyre has to be wholly over the line and not touching it to count as illegally parked.

what are your thoughts on receiving this letter? I have never received a response from C2C to my original appeal 2 years ago and have also in this period recieved 2 letters (not dated) from Zenith collections requesting payments, and 3 letters from DRP - all over years ago, so this new letter from gladstones has been all iv received for some time.
I have read that IAS are based or work with Gladstones hence as you said now deemed not that impartial at all. As you rightly said they are out of time with POFA, but as I have had no response C2C so am I still within the one year period to submit a IAS appeal?
I have written a letter of appeal but cannot find it on the IAS website as me having sent it which I wrote after posting my first post to this thread - can I still submit a second stage appeal to IAS? particularly in light of the NTK being sent 99days after date of issue?

You say to write to the supermarket that owns the land directly, which I will do again. Who do you think i should try and direct this to? Ie manager of the store or head office?

Up to this point I have ignored all other letters but obviously dont want a CCJ. I have drafted a letter to send directly to Gladstones that looks like this:

I refer to your letter of [insert date].

Please note, this is an open letter and I reserve the right to produce it to the court at the appropriate time, should the need arise.

Firstly, I do not accept liability for the above parking charge and I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client. Specifically, I do not accept that the charge demanded is in any way shape or form a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Contrary, to your letter I have responded regarding this claim and have not received any response from Capital 2 Coast since when the letter was sent. I have attached a copy of this letter for your record. Further, I do not believe that your client has legal standing to pursue an action against me in its own name, since any loss (which is denied) would be the landholder's in any event. I am sure that you will have advised your client as to the recent cases in which parking companies have had similar claims dismissed owing to having no locus to bring a claim. For the above reasons, any court proceedings in connection with this matter will be vigorously defended.

Second, should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, you must first provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct. Your letter clearly does not meet those requirements.

In particular your attention is drawn to the Practice Direction requirement to utilise an appropriate form of ADR before starting court proceedings. In the circumstances I invite your client to refer this dispute to the Independent Appeals Service ("IAS"), which is the appropriate form of ADR set up by the parking industry for this precise situation.

Please note: Notwithstanding the fact that any decision of IAS is legally binding on the parking company, and not the motorist, in the spirit of exploring an amicable resolution of this dispute, I am willing to give an undertaking to be bound by the decision of IAS, thus ensuring that this case will not proceed to court.

A referral to IAS will avoid your client incurring the fees and expenses set out in your letter, and perhaps more importantly will reduce the burden on the court (which, as you will be aware, is the reason for this Direction). Please do not seek to rely on any deadlines imposed by your client as IAS has confirmed that it does not impose any time limit on an appeal to IAS specifically as no formal response to my initial appeal sent on has been given failing to respond to any of my points requiring information in rejection of my response.

I would also remind you that a failure and/or refusal by your client to agree to my offer of both parties abiding by a IAS decision would be clear evidence of your client's failure to mitigate its alleged loss.

Should your client reject my offer to refer this dispute to ADR and instead chooses to instruct you to issue court proceedings, I shall invite the court to stay the case and make an order referring the case to IAS. Further I shall strenuously resist any application for costs that your client may wish to make, owing to its failure to mitigate, and shall instead make an application for my own wasted costs according to the provisions of Schedule 4 of the Practice Direction and CPR 27.14.

In the meantime, and in the absence of a compliant Letter Before Claim, you should place a note on your file to the effect that this charge is disputed and your firm is required to cease and desist all further contact with me. For the avoidance of doubt, the same applies to the debt collection agency, referred to in your letter.

Finally, please also note that should your firm issue court proceedings on behalf of your client, without first complying with all steps set out in the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct, I shall make an immediate complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

I trust that I have made myself clear, and I suggest that you take your client's further instructions.

Yours faithfully

Should I make point that I will be making an IAS appeal rather than requesting that their client (C2C) does?

As well as IAS can I also appeal via POPLA?

Any advice you can give would be much appreciated! thank you all!

Redx

romantix wrote: »

Should I make point that I will be making an IAS appeal rather than requesting that their client (C2C) does?

As well as IAS can I also appeal via POPLA?

Any advice you can give would be much appreciated! thank you all!

they normally only allow 21 days for an IAS appeal, so that ship may well have sailed long ago

as this is an IPC member , there is absolutely NO CHANCE of appealing to popla and NO CHANCE of c2c issuing a popla code , because they are not in the BPA AOS club

c2c are in the IPC which is run by Gladstones and GLADSTONES also run the IAS as well, its a sc@m operation all the way down the line, with many hoops to jump through and blocks in those hoops in their favour

as this is a very old thread, I suspect its at the LBA stage by GLADSTONES , BEFORE A COURT CASE (MCOL) is issued

4cr has been PPR,d on here but has a new username

Umkomaas

This case started in 2014, so not only has the appeal ship sailed, it's done 3 around the world cruises in the meantime.

This is not a Letter Before County Court Claim, but a further turn of the debt collection thumbscrew using a Gladstones headed letter. It's DRP to whom any payment is to be made, not the PPC, which says it all.

There's been a rash of similar Gladstones letters (debt collection rather than LBCCC). Search the forum for 'Gladstones Debt' to pull up recent threads and read and understand the advice given there. A similar search on PePiPoo will be equally fruitful.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

The_Deep

Read this


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5509488


to get and idea of theMO of this company.

romantix

Thank you for your posts, but I am genuinely confused from reading all the threads on Gladstone's the advice at this stage before a LBA is sent as to whether to respond (and with what? Iv heard of a GAN letter on the posts?) Or ignore as when someone did correspond with Gladstone's they then got a straight court letter? Because my wheels weren't outside the lines I do feel I was in the right if it did go to court but I would prefer the headache and avoid this. Any further advice?

The_Deep

There are several letters from Gan asking some very challenging questions of solicitors, search MSE and ppp for Miah & Co, £54, Gladstones, and BW Law. .

Ralph-y

do not under any circumstances send that letter !

especially

"Please note: Notwithstanding the fact that any decision of IAS is legally binding on the parking company, and not the motorist, in the spirit of exploring an amicable resolution of this dispute, I am willing to give an undertaking to be bound by the decision of IAS, thus ensuring that this case will not proceed to court. "

that's akin to asking a small circuit judge to postpone a case until the 'hanging judge' is available !

Ralph:cool:

Umkomaas

Ralph-y wrote: »

do not under any circumstances send that letter !

especially

"Please note: Notwithstanding the fact that any decision of IAS is legally binding on the parking company, and not the motorist, in the spirit of exploring an amicable resolution of this dispute, I am willing to give an undertaking to be bound by the decision of IAS, thus ensuring that this case will not proceed to court. "

that us akin to asking a small circuit judge to postpone a case until the 'hanging judge' is available !

Ralph:cool:

Well spotted Ralph-y. Crazy offer. The appeal was almost bound to fail without that - with that it will definitely fail, and the OP will have agreed to stump up. On that basis, why bother writing, may as well send the cash now, it will save the OP the cost of a stamp!

Haven't seen you for a while Ralph-y; welcome back. If you're not up to date, a number of regulars have bitten the MSE PPR dust - Coupon-mad and Bod being two big names.