Dental Advice Please

ManofLeisure_2

brook2jack wrote: »

There is a reason the NHS cannot provide dental care for all.

The total budget per person treated in England per year including patient contributions is around £29 . How much world class dentistry will £29 buy? A cheap NHS dental practice in a cheap area will cost upwards of £120 per hour per surgery room to run. This figure includes specialist treatment for cancer and trauma reconstructions etc.

We cannot as a country afford to provide all dentistry for all people. Many of us have argued for some time that our limited resources should provide a core service of simple treatments for the most vulnerable rather than pretending we can provide everything for everyone.

The figures don't include the 50% of people who don't attend a dentist or those who choose private dentists .

We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, so I don't hold with that argument I'm afraid. How governments' have chosen to spend monies is another matter entirely. That of course is not the fault of the dental profession

brook2jack

There is no other country which provides a comprehensive "national health" style dental service. Most countries in the EU require to take out additional insurances to cover dental treatment and/or have co payments at a much higher rate than in the UK.

Dental technology has come on apace and teeth that were unsavable 20 years ago can be saved or replaced but only by using extremely expensive technology and materials. In a time when we cannot afford all treatments for cancer on the NHS can we really justify spending £400 for a specialist root treatment to save just one tooth? MDTA cement which is just one of the materials used costs over £50 a capsule, a set of disposable drills £30, a specialist microscope £15,000 the time taken about two hours.

The costs of providing a full NHS dental service would result in a multiplication many times of the current NHS budget, bearing in mind only about 50% of the population visit a dentist at the moment.

Interestingly when the government set up access centres to treat those who had no dentist, these were staffed by salaried staff and dentists and the costs paid for by the health authorities. In normal practice the average spend per patient PER YEAR including patient contributions was £29. In dental access centres the cost was PER COURSE over £400 perhaps a truer picture of how expensive it is to provide healthcare.

BucksLady

justme111 wrote: »

BucksLady wrote: »

Out of your post the only tangible information that i get is that you did not like your dentist and think he is a crook after your money . They are all different , the same as any other business where consumer is not very familiar with subject, be it car mechanics or plumbers. In dentistry we have an added issue of vulnerability and pain. No wonder public does not like dentists. I can only wish you to find a dentist you trust, be it nhs or ptivate. Just keep in mind that there good and not so on both sides but nhs ones will have additional downside of being paid a pittance for their work and as a result having a huge pressure to "pile them high " to stay afloat while our politicians lie about nhs being comprehensive of superb quality and universal - i wonder how someone with a half of brain cell could not put two and two together and not see it is impossible, it is like people believing communism is feasible !

No, I don't think that dentist was a crook, but I do think he was after my money . Mmm, I'm just thinking about the number of adults aged 50+ who are walking about with invasalign braces. Oh well, something to spend their money on I suppose

BucksLady

brook2jack wrote: »

There is a reason the NHS cannot provide dental care for all.

The total budget per person treated in England per year including patient contributions is around £29 . How much world class dentistry will £29 buy? A cheap NHS dental practice in a cheap area will cost upwards of £120 per hour per surgery room to run. This figure includes specialist treatment for cancer and trauma reconstructions etc.

We cannot as a country afford to provide all dentistry for all people. Many of us have argued for some time that our limited resources should provide a core service of simple treatments for the most vulnerable rather than pretending we can provide everything for everyone.

The figures don't include the 50% of people who don't attend a dentist or those who choose private dentists .

Shocking statistics. However, as MOL said, we are a wealthy country and so should patients have to put up with a NHS which is struggling like this.
If I were a dentist I would have chained myself to the railings by now and rallied for change:D

brook2jack

Dentist have been campaigning for years. Many of us have served on committees etc (unpaid) for decades. In my own area the health board is in the red , has had to close hospitals for admissions and ration many health treatments.

It's the general public who need to speak up and if they want wider coverage be prepared to pay much higher taxes for it.

When I started in dentistry many years ago it was alot cheaper to provide. However as the years have progressed technology, patient expectation and demands have increased.

Thirty years ago over 40% of people in their 50s would have had no natural teeth, they would have had full dentures.

These days people are keeping more teeth, for longer, but these are teeth that need alot doing to keep them particularly as people get into their 70s and 80s.

In my area almost 50% of children age 5 will have had at least one decayed tooth. Tooth decay is the most common reason, after respiratory infections, for children needing hospital admissions.

The reality is all health care is rationed. We have to decide our priorities , and those should be the vulnerable . As I said before in the light of the above how can we justify £400 for root treatment for one tooth on the health service?

justme111

My questions were not answered , people just prefer to repeat like a mantra "nhs dentistry should, we are a rich country ". Should or should not is socioeconomical ans political matters. The present fact is that it does not. So you have a choice - either spend money on your teeth or suffer repeated prescriptions.
re the only people who have different opinion are dentists - could it be because we know what is happening by any chance?
Re chaining oneself protesting - would you honestly do it if it meant you can not work ? Who would pay your bills? Or you would requalify as a beautician in an act of protest ? Because if you are saying nhs dentistry is not good then you , if you provide it , can not be part of it. So you would have to resign. Or go private. Many people do. In fact thats why most of dentists do - because they are sick of being part of a lie. Not because they want to earn more. In fact the easiest way to earn more is to do repeated prescription on nhs . And yes some stop working altogether for the same reason. They accept lower income for clear conscience.
So the dentist was bad just because he mentioned teeth straightening? Did he lie to you saying you had to do it ? Why such an open animosity - just for offering a service ? When you are in a restaurant do you feel the same towards a waiter who gives you the menue ?

justme111

ManofLeisure wrote: »

We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, so I don't hold with that argument I'm afraid. How governments' have chosen to spend monies is another matter entirely. That of course is not the fault of the dental profession

Welthy country ? Have you seen national debt ?
Anyway , wealthy or not - who said teeth should be for free? Why not cars or hairdressers ?

ManofLeisure_2

justme111 wrote: »

So the dentist was bad just because he mentioned teeth straightening? Did he lie to you saying you had to do it ? Why such an open animosity - just for offering a service ? When you are in a restaurant do you feel the same towards a waiter who gives you the menue ?

If someone offered me treatment I did not need I would think it quite immoral. How you can say that is ok is beyond me I'm afraid.

justme111

It is not matter of need . Or disease. Or treatment. It is cosmetical service.
My contributions to this thread and to all other dental threads on this forum is finished. You may guess reasons for it if you wanted to think about it - very doubtful you will.

brook2jack

're being offered braces.

Aesthetic dentistry is not there to improve health but to improve looks. Therefore it is not strictly necessary.

However many people are unaware braces can be worn at any age. Indeed I have patients in their sixties who are delighted to be wearing braces as they were very conscious of their teeth but didn't think anything could be done about them other than invasive crowning etc. A dentist may suggest treatments so you are aware of the options but it doesn't mean you have to take up the option, you are just better informed.

're invisalign this is an expensive system because the laboratory costs for a simple case start from £1500 and can go up beyond £ 3000. Ordinary train track braces are cheaper as they don't have such high lab costs, just visits to the dentist every six weeks for on average 18 months.