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Dental Advice Please
Comments
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Straight away I can say my private fees are lower. If there was a truly free market prices would be more competitive. There is no set private fee for people to say they are too expensive. Prices vary significantly. My exam fee is 25 and fillings start from 40 which is not drastically more than nhs charges.. Obviously they are a bit more but that's because nhs fees are subsidised
Welshdent, I think your prices are very reasonable, but I don't think they are truly reflective of private fees.0 -
Now , addressing the points raised. I think we all agreee there should be service for people who go to bed hungry. May be basic , may be comprehensive -i am not talking about them. Can you confirm that you believe that people who own a car , pay tv license , go on holidays , have more than one pair of shoes , have savings , ever go out or to hairdressers should have subsidised or free dental care ?
Re prices. Someone of low risk who looks after their teeth does not even need two check ups a year. Not many people need two cleans a year either. I did not object to the numbers in the first place because assuming they have not been so careful / well served by dentistry in the past they probably will need some work done from time to time. It could be one filling a year because if they have many fillings those qould need ro be replaced. Every few years they may need root canal work or crowns . So i thought £160 a year could roughly cover that. Some people with no caries , gum disease or other more rare problems would actually be fine with one check up a year. £50 for it would be the fee that many practices offer. Many would need work from time to time , lets say a filling every year and a root canal or crown work every 5 years. Which gives us about £1100 over 5 years time , ie £220 a year. Can you confirm that you believe that majority of population do not spend 220 a year on something which is not vital like food and shelter ?
And the last 2 questions : nobody can afford all they want. Why do you think the state should provide people with dentistry but not with cars if one can not afford to buy one or run one for that matter ? Should state provide food to people who are genuinely hungry ? If so - what food should it be ? Should it be voucher for unlimited shopping at waitrose ?
Once those questions replied i will understand better your opinions.
I hope I never lose my compassion for the sick and vulnerable or the poor and needy. Who knows what is round the corner for any one of us. Of course the State should help such people. You seem to think that you can count such folk on one hand - that is not the case. I wish you could shadow my partner for one day because then and only then will you understand.0 -
Welshdent, I think your prices are very reasonable, but I don't think they are truly reflective of private fees.
Around here they are. There is a whole range. We have a sainsburys down the road and we are more or less the same as them. There will be one or 2 places that cost more obviously however the blanket "private is too expensive" just isnt true because there is no one set fee.
Also one practice may HAVE to charge more if their rent/buisness loans are more that need to be funded. The money has to come from somewhere.0 -
Around here they are. There is a whole range. We have a sainsburys down the road and we are more or less the same as them. There will be one or 2 places that cost more obviously however the blanket "private is too expensive" just isnt true because there is no one set fee.
Also one practice may HAVE to charge more if their rent/buisness loans are more that need to be funded. The money has to come from somewhere.[/QUOTE
The variations in costs are most likely down to the lack of transparency in dentistry. The market is not efficient, and like all inefficient markets, price discrepancy is created by a lack of knowledge by both the consumer and the businesses providing the services. When there is no NHS provision available (unless a lengthy wait) in a particular area, the patient has no alternative if experiencing problems, to turn to the Private Sector. That in itself can be a minefield. Recently we moved house and I registered with a local Private Practice. I was given an examination and a quick clean with a water jet thingy. I have never needed any treatment before - no fillings etc. My teeth and gums are ok. Yet this dentist tried to persuade me to invest in thousands of pounds of treatment to straighten my teeth Hey, they aren't even crooked:), because the NHS straightened them years ago. Having said no thanks, I was then advised another appointment in 6 months. I'm 30 with no gum disease or tooth decay, so what was that all about.0 -
So we do agree then that the state should help sick and vulnerable. Not sure why the tine of your post is negative.You implying i do not have compassion for is offensive, where did i say that people who are in dire circumstances should have no access to dental care? On the contrary , i said they should. . I accept there may be more of them than i believe there are , it does not change the fact that vast majority of nhs dentistry consumers that i see spend money on items I listed in previous postsI hope I never lose my compassion for the sick and vulnerable or the poor and needy. Who knows what is round the corner for any one of us. Of course the State should help such people. You seem to think that you can count such folk on one hand - that is not the case. I wish you could shadow my partner for one day because then and only then will you understand.
I been called rude - i wonder what particular words of mine could you pinpoint as rude please?
Whether welshdent's prices are indicative or not - http://www.whatprice.co.uk/dentist/private-prices.html
Check up £42 , scaling 45.The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.0 -
Out of your post the only tangible information that i get is that you did not like your dentist and think he is a crook after your moneyAround here they are. There is a whole range. We have a sainsburys down the road and we are more or less the same as them. There will be one or 2 places that cost more obviously however the blanket "private is too expensive" just isnt true because there is no one set fee.
Also one practice may HAVE to charge more if their rent/buisness loans are more that need to be funded. The money has to come from somewhere.[/QUOTE
The variations in costs are most likely down to the lack of transparency in dentistry. The market is not efficient, and like all inefficient markets, price discrepancy is created by a lack of knowledge by both the consumer and the businesses providing the services. When there is no NHS provision available (unless a lengthy wait) in a particular area, the patient has no alternative if experiencing problems, to turn to the Private Sector. That in itself can be a minefield. Recently we moved house and I registered with a local Private Practice. I was given an examination and a quick clean with a water jet thingy. I have never needed any treatment before - no fillings etc. My teeth and gums are ok. Yet this dentist tried to persuade me to invest in thousands of pounds of treatment to straighten my teeth Hey, they aren't even crooked:), because the NHS straightened them years ago. Having said no thanks, I was then advised another appointment in 6 months. I'm 30 with no gum disease or tooth decay, so what was that all about.
. They are all different , the same as any other business where consumer is not very familiar with subject, be it car mechanics or plumbers. In dentistry we have an added issue of vulnerability and pain. No wonder public does not like dentists. I can only wish you to find a dentist you trust, be it nhs or ptivate. Just keep in mind that there good and not so on both sides but nhs ones will have additional downside of being paid a pittance for their work and as a result having a huge pressure to "pile them high " to stay afloat while our politicians lie about nhs being comprehensive of superb quality and universal - i wonder how someone with a half of brain cell could not put two and two together and not see it is impossible, it is like people believing communism is feasible !The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.0 -
Buckslady I think you would be interested to know that in the UK a dentist doing private dentistry , on average, earns about 5% more than a dentist doing mostly nhs work.
The reason being that the overheads in private dentistry are significantly more than the overhead for a nhs practice. The equipment, materials and training costs are significantly higher.
A dental surgeon specialising in , say implants , may spend £250,000 in training and setting up to,provide implants. Their indemnity fees and on going costs will be far higher than a "family" dentist in the suburbs who refers out more complex treatment.
Many corporate bodies have tried to set up in dentistry looking for savings that big business will bring. Boots,specsavers etc failed because dental practices were run so efficiently already the costs that extra layers of management and shareholders caused couldn't be absorbed. Indeed the largest provider of corporate dentistry idh runs on losses so £35 million a year.
Interestingly all UK dentists have had a decrease in income year on year , between 10% and 25% since 2006.
Dental inflation is running rampant at the moment, dentists registration has doubled this year and indemnity is looking to increase by 30% again this year.that means £5000 for an associate dentist a year , for implants I have heard of figures of £18,000 and more just for indemnity.0 -
I always meant to ask about IDH as it does not make sense to me - why would someone undergo continuous expansion if trading at a loss and what do they hope going to change for them to make profit , any idea ?The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.0 -
IDH owners are venture capitalists .The fact that the business has a huge amount of debt and not enough assets to pay the debts doesn't matter as there is a large turnover and operating profit . All they need to do is find someone to sell onto and they don't have to worry about the debts.
Indeed they are now taking advice as to how to realise their investment. PS I was wrong it was a £77 million loss, not £35 million loss. http://www.gdpuk.com/news/latest-news/1661-idh-sees-turnover-jump-170 -
There is a reason the NHS cannot provide dental care for all.
The total budget per person treated in England per year including patient contributions is around £29 . How much world class dentistry will £29 buy? A cheap NHS dental practice in a cheap area will cost upwards of £120 per hour per surgery room to run. This figure includes specialist treatment for cancer and trauma reconstructions etc.
We cannot as a country afford to provide all dentistry for all people. Many of us have argued for some time that our limited resources should provide a core service of simple treatments for the most vulnerable rather than pretending we can provide everything for everyone.
The figures don't include the 50% of people who don't attend a dentist or those who choose private dentists .0
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