C4 Dispatches - The British Property Boom

TickersPlaysPop

Cornucopia wrote: »

As a BTL LL, I'm not going to sit idly by and watch BTL LLs be denigrated. Especially where that denigration lacks substance or logic.

More generally, I fear for the amount of Internet pap on the Internet. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to take these threads in any way seriously when making decisions about what kind of housing to choose.

Thank you for answering.... it is not BTL'ers themselves that are under discussion from me it is the rise of this type of housing and whether people are happy to see the trend continue. It is the system not the individuals involved. If I had loads of money over the past 7 yrs I would have purchased BTL, it was the only way to significantly make your money work and produce an income and growth.... but the discussion is about whether that is a healthy system for our country.

Please can you clarify what you mean by "what kind of housing to chose"?

JencParker

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

You come across as a very jealous and envious person..... Just saying, P.S I'm not a BTL'er

LOL - jealousy is often the accusation fired at those who disagree. I can assure you I have not a shred of envy or jealousy. I am a home owner and could have been a 'BTL'er', however, I chose not to for moral reasons. I do however, in the course of my work, deal with people's difficulties and the cost and insecurity of renting is a major distress for too many. The system we currently have favours too few at the expense of too many. It really is as simple as that. Of course, I do not expect the few to show empathy when the focus of their efforts and beliefs are material wealth.
And when thread like 'How Much Did Your House Earn in 2014 ?' and 'MILLIONS of Young People WANT & NEED Higher House prices!!!' seem to be the norm and the popular view that anyone who cannot buy their own home either spends too much money on phones and holidays! or is one of life's poor who should never expect to own a home (although somehow these are the very people who often pay more in rent than they would for a mortgage,) and in effect are paying the BTL'ers mortgage for them, I despair at the values we have in our so called 'civilised' society.

TickersPlaysPop

ukcarper wrote: »

Wages are still above 2004 levels. I agree there are many problems facing young people I just don't agree that the main one is house prices.

What question am I avoiding I didn't realise I was.

What's your background.

I've posted about my background extensively before .... I'm 38 BSc development scientist by trade musician by night, owner occupier in kent and still on a mortgage but a low loan to value compared to most my age.

Wage stats need to be treated with caution, they need to be looked at regionally, and also you need to know the distribution of salaries across the range and whether median is a better figure rather than mean. Also, the age and wage is relevant for our discussion. So I doubt whether 2004 is the same as now considering all of these factors.

ukcarper

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

Thank you for answering.... it is not BTL'ers themselves that are under discussion from me it is the rise of this type of housing and whether people are happy to see the trend continue. It is the system not the individuals involved. If I had loads of money over the past 7 yrs I would have purchased BTL, it was the only way to significantly make your money work and produce an income and growth.... but the discussion is about whether that is a healthy system for our country.

Please can you clarify what you mean by "what kind of housing to chose"?

I don't see BTL as the ideal way to make up for the loss of council housing but I don't see anybody else jumping in to fill the void.

jjlandlord

JencParker wrote: »

I am a home owner and could have been a 'BTL'er', however, I chose not to for moral reasons.

That's your right.

However, if everyone refrained from starting a business for 'moral reasons' you would have to deal with many more people having difficulties...

This obviously includes property businesses.
Let's not confuse the effects and the causes: Many people can't or don't want to buy a property therefore there is a business case for BTL (which is just a business delivering a service to customers).

ruggedtoast

JencParker wrote: »

Judging by the posts it seems most as some sort of mental masturbation regarding their wealth and financial prowess. In fairness, it is a money orientated forum so it is not surprising that so many members enjoy this type of self pleasuring regarding their wealth and financial gains. Of course, their decisions will be favoured by profit rather than people so we really can't expect any sort of moral or empathetic response from them.

Exactly, I don't think there is much point appealing to their better nature. Most of them don't have one.

A change of legislation is the only thing that will improve the lot of people trapped in the UK's miserable private rental sector.

As the number of renters increases there will inevitably be a shift in the perception that bankers and buy to letters have some kind of automatic right to sit on the shoulders of others and suck thousands of pounds a month from people for no other reason than that they need somewhere to live.

ukcarper

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

I've posted about my background extensively before .... I'm 38 BSc development scientist by trade musician by night, owner occupier in kent and still on a mortgage but a low loan to value compared to most my age.

Wage stats need to be treated with caution, they need to be looked at regionally, and also you need to know the distribution of salaries across the range and whether median is a better figure rather than mean. Also, the age and wage is relevant for our discussion. So I doubt whether 2004 is the same as now considering all of these factors.

All states need to be treated with caution but wages rose steadily between 2004 and 2008 and slowly since but they have not fallen back to that level so in relation to earnings house prices are not higher. I generally use meadien figures when looking at earnings but on relation to house prices it pays to look at full time earnings as I don't think people working part time have ever been able to buy property unless they have some other form of capital.

Crashy_Time

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Exactly, I don't think there is much point appealing to their better nature. Most of them don't have one.

A change of legislation is the only thing that will improve the lot of people trapped in the UK's miserable private rental sector.

As the number of renters increases there will inevitably be a shift in the perception that bankers and buy to letters have some kind of automatic right to sit on the shoulders of others and suck thousands of pounds a month from people for no other reason than that they need somewhere to live.

My rent hasn`t moved in many years, the idea that BTL`ers are making money is a myth for the most part, they are providing a service yes, but there is dwindling money in providing that service. They also get to do all the repairs and take the capital hit when house prices turn down.

Crashy_Time

ukcarper wrote: »

All states need to be treated with caution but wages rose steadily between 2004 and 2008 and slowly since but they have not fallen back to that level so in relation to earnings house prices are not higher. I generally use meadien figures when looking at earnings but on relation to house prices it pays to look at full time earnings as I don't think people working part time have ever been able to buy property unless they have some other form of capital.

Learning to spell might lend some credibility to your ramblings, but then again, maybe not.....:money:


If you meant STATS then I would take much of the nonsense trotted out on here with a large pinch of salt.

ukcarper

JencParker wrote: »

LOL - jealousy is often the accusation fired at those who disagree. I can assure you I have not a shred of envy or jealousy. I am a home owner and could have been a 'BTL'er', however, I chose not to for moral reasons. I do however, in the course of my work, deal with people's difficulties and the cost and insecurity of renting is a major distress for too many. The system we currently have favours too few at the expense of too many. It really is as simple as that. Of course, I do not expect the few to show empathy when the focus of their efforts and beliefs are material wealth.
And when thread like 'How Much Did Your House Earn in 2014 ?' and 'MILLIONS of Young People WANT & NEED Higher House prices!!!' seem to be the norm and the popular view that anyone who cannot buy their own home either spends too much money on phones and holidays! or is one of life's poor who should never expect to own a home (although somehow these are the very people who often pay more in rent than they would for a mortgage,) and in effect are paying the BTL'ers mortgage for them, I despair at the values we have in our so called 'civilised' society.

What do you suggest as an alternative I agree BTL is not the ideal solution but I don't see BTL landlords as immoral.