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Scottish Universities
Bantex_2
Posts: 3,317 Forumite
Can anyone explain to me hot it is that Scottish Unis do not charge Scots or EU citizens tuition fees, but they do charge the English?
Cannot get my head round the legality of it.
Cannot get my head round the legality of it.
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Comments
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Can anyone explain to me hot it is that Scottish Unis do not charge Scots or EU citizens tuition fees, but they do charge the English?
Cannot get my head round the legality of it.
Apparently it's because you can discriminate against people from your own country within the EU but not those from others.
If Scotland left the UK and remained within the EU (let's not get into that for another 20 years) then it could no longer charge UK residents only for going to Scottish Unis. It would have to charge all EU citizens or none.
It's not really logical but I can't imagine that the law was framed with the idea that a region wouldn't want to charge students from other regions in the country to attend unis whilst letting in foreigners for nothing as it's rather stupid on the face of it.0 -
Apparently it's because you can discriminate against people from your own country within the EU but not those from others.
If Scotland left the UK and remained within the EU (let's not get into that for another 20 years) then it could no longer charge UK residents only for going to Scottish Unis. It would have to charge all EU citizens or none.
It's not really logical but I can't imagine that the law was framed with the idea that a region wouldn't want to charge students from other regions in the country to attend unis whilst letting in foreigners for nothing as it's rather stupid on the face of it.
Wonder whether someone could take on a case based on the fact that there is a higher proportion of "say" black students in England than the EU as a whole and sue on the grounds of indirect discrimination on the grounds of race?0 -
Can anyone explain to me hot it is that Scottish Unis do not charge Scots or EU citizens tuition fees, but they do charge the English?
Cannot get my head round the legality of it.
University fees are one of the things that the devolved Scottish parliament can decide. It has decided not to charge Scottish students any uni fees.
Scottish unis do, however, charge fees to all non-Scots that they are allowed to charge. This means students from England, Wales and NI, and students from outside the EU.
EU rules say that they have to treat students from other EU countries the same as "home" students. As far as the EU is concerned, all UK students are "home" students in all UK universities. It does not concern itself with whether some "home" students get a better deal than others, but since some "home" students (ie the Scottish ones) get to go to uni for free, then all EU-but-not-UK students must be able to do the same.
[X-posted with Generali]Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
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Wonder whether someone could take on a case based on the fact that there is a higher proportion of "say" black students in England than the EU as a whole and sue on the grounds of indirect discrimination on the grounds of race?
It probably wouldn't be unreasonable to argue that the English and Scottish are different races and sue on that basis.
If I was to deny a Scotsman a job on the basis of being Scottish in London then I can't imagine I'd have much of a defence in court/tribunal. IANAL though so don't really know.0 -
Wonder if someone could open a pub in London and have a separate price list for anyone from Wales?
To be honest it still all seems a bit close to the line regarding legality, surprised there have been no test cases.0 -
Wonder if someone could open a pub in London and have a separate price list for anyone from Wales?
No idea. I suspect a Welsh pub might get away with having an English price list but not vice versa. The law in application seems to be mostly about who is the oppressed and who is the oppressor rather than what is the law. Maybe that's just the law we read in the papers though.To be honest it still all seems a bit close to the line regarding legality, surprised there have been no test cases.
It seems to be on the face of it. Maybe English people aren't that fussed about going to Scottish Unis, even for free.
People have other things to fight about I guess.0 -
Wonder if someone could open a pub in London and have a separate price list for anyone from Wales?
To be honest it still all seems a bit close to the line regarding legality, surprised there have been no test cases.
There was a test case last year which was thrown out because the policy is based on residency and not nationality. Student's name was Liam O'Connor should you want to find out more.0 -
It probably wouldn't be unreasonable to argue that the English and Scottish are different races and sue on that basis.
If I was to deny a Scotsman a job on the basis of being Scottish in London then I can't imagine I'd have much of a defence in court/tribunal. IANAL though so don't really know.
They don't discriminate on the basis of ethnic origin but on the basis of current place of being ordinarily resident. (IIRC you have to have been living there for some specified length of time to qualify, but I could be wrong about that.) English, Welsh and Northern Irish people who move to live permanently in Scotland become just as much entitled to go to Scottish universities for free as native Scots once they've lived there a year or two. Scots who have moved elsewhere in the UK have to pay fees if they go back to Scotland for uni.
[X-posted with beecher2]Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.0 -
Nationality is a 'protected characteristic' and it should be, in theory, illegal to discriminate on the basis of nationality
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/4/crossheading/nationality-and-ethnic-or-national-origins
How the practice of charging English students more than other EU students hasn't hit a legal barrier; i don't know. I'm sure someones done due diligence though0 -
If discrimination based on residency is fine with the EU. Would that not be the answer to Camerons problems with benefits for migrant workers. Just set a 15 year residency condition and the problem is solved.0
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