Lighting, replenishing and getting heat from smokeless fuel

grumpyoldgal

Good Morning all


It is miserable here in Cheshire, a really horrible grey day where everything looks damp and fed up and it makes me want a lovely warm fire.


Out of wood at the moment - however, I am struggling with that too, but that is another story.


Have a bag of Brazier smokeless coal in the garage, tried it last night - found it murder to light, hard to know how much to put in to get a good fire, what to do with my airwash vent at the top and my primary vent at the bottom and when, and how to get heat. The stove felt hot (I could touch it but not keep my hand on it) and when I opened it you could feel the heat, but the room and us were cold all evening (had it going for 6hrs).


Have looked at eco fan - we don't have enough space above the stove for one.


Can anybody help us please? I know it probably is quite a silly question to a lot of you but I really would like to feel warm tonight!


Many thanks in advance.
x

suki1964

Lots of dry kindling. Open all vents. When the kindling starts to flame, add some fuel, enough to cover the kindling but not to smother. When they are hitting red and flames showing, fill your grate. Leave all vents open till you have a good hot flaming fire. You may need to leave the door ajar to this stage to get enough air. You should have a good fire going within 20, 30 mins

Leave the fire burning bright till you feel the room warming, then top up, close the door and wait for the fresh fuel to get hot and flame

This is when you start to close of the air supply top vent first. Slowly, in increments close the bottom vent

Basically the more air, the hotter the stove, the warmer the room Don't be closing the stove down until you get a warm room

If as the evening goes on the fire gets too cool, riddle it and give it more air. Once the stove has been heated through it really is just a case of keeping the fuel that's in there tick over at a nice red hot colour

It's not an exact science. Every stove and installation is different. Today it's very still and moist weather wise here, and it's taken an hour for my stove to take, yesterday was 20 mins. Just got to let it roar a bit longer now before I start to feel the benefit.


I think also people hear that smokeless burns for hours and belts out the heat, and think that's from the start. It's not so, the first half scuttle I load I burn hard and fast to get the stove and room hot. it's the top ups that last the age, as they are just keeping the stove to the temp I first get it to

aelitaman

You may want to check the fire rope arround your door. When closed does the door have movement if you pull the handle?

If my fire rope is not making a good seal it is like having an open fire, whereas with good seal you can hear the air being sucked in and roaring flames.

I use Brazier and find it easy to light. I build a jenga style kindling tower, out firelighter in the middle put some brazier on top and around the sides. As they catch I add more until grate is full.

grumpyoldgal

Thank you both


Suki I have got my laptop open on this page to follow your instructions!! Fire is going well now but room still cold, but perservering!! Thank you. As a matter of interest what SF do you use?


Aelitaman, the door seems fine, but I will remember that for future reference, thank you! Do fire ropes need to be replaced frequently? Is it a simple enough job? I will try the jenga kindling tomorrow, but both of you suggest that once the fire is good fill the grate.....perhaps I was being a bit stingy too!!


I have to say tho this is now probably the best fire I have had so that is encouraging me.


What about wood?


Same issue - warmth to room poor.....

grumpyoldgal

Actually still cold!!!


Suki, have just read your reply again, and in relation to your last paragraph,


"I think also people hear that smokeless burns for hours and belts out the heat, and think that's from the start. It's not so, the first half scuttle I load I burn hard and fast to get the stove and room hot. it's the top ups that last the age, as they are just keeping the stove to the temp I first get it to"


can I please ask how you do this......I keep reading this but don't know what to do. I have ordered a stove thermometer but still don't know what this is


thank you again (and for your patience with me!)

Swipe

I find smokeless takes an age to heat up my stove and room. What I tend to do if it's cold is to build a smaller fire with smokeless then throw a couple of small logs on top and draw it up. The flames really heat up the stove and get the coals glowing really hot. Then I add more smokeless and I'm set for the day.

John_the_Boy

My coal merchant suggested homefire but said they do one slightly hotter called excel http://www.cheap-coal.co.uk/winter-fuels/smokeless-fuels-for-multi-fuel-stoves-open-fires/excell-50kg.html

It is very disheartening trying to get a good fire going with smokeless isn't it!

If you want a good thermometer the one I got from Maplin was good value for an IR one and has been very useful as I can get an idea how hot the stove is in the firebox http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/infrared-thermometer-with-laser-targeting-n92fx

Best of luck, will be watching this thread with interest.

JB

A._Badger

Swipe wrote: »

I find smokeless takes an age to heat up my stove and room. What I tend to do if it's cold is to build a smaller fire with smokeless then throw a couple of small logs on top and draw it up. The flames really heat up the stove and get the coals glowing really hot. Then I add more smokeless and I'm set for the day.

I use the same technique and agree it works well.

There are those who counsel against using wood and smokeless simultaneously. They say the combination of moisture from the wood and sulphur from the smokeless forms dilute sulphuric acid which degrades stainless steel liners.

My sweep (who is also an installer and very experienced) opined that this was 'rubbish' so I've continued to do it - if only on the grounds that it seems highly unlikely that a couple of pieces of wood in an evening are going to make much difference to anything.

I find it puzzling that some people are having so much trouble burning smokeless and I hope it doesn't deter potential stove buyers. It is actually quite easy to get a fire going and enjoy a great amount of heat from it. It is, for one thing, a heck of a lot less variable than wood!

I suspect several things are at work. The first is that there are some pretty poor retailers and installers about. People are being sold the wrong stoves for their needs and others are not having them fitted well. Draughting is a black art and an experienced installer/sweep will be able to quickly diagnose problems that baffle the inexperienced.

I also suspect that there is a generation that hasn't grown up with fires and just hasn't developed the experience that older users have absorbed almost by osmosis and simply don't 'get' building and maintaining a fire. If they persist, they will succeed. Our ancestors managed, after all!

Finally, installers should show the inexperienced how to drive their stove as part of the installation. You wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) sell a car to someone who can't drive.

grumpyoldgal

Thank you


JB, what does IR mean please?


Tonight I have never got to the stage where I have touched the vents, once flames disappeared the room cooled significantly so for the last hour I have thrown a couple of logs on just to try to get the room warm for the last hour before bed. It certainly increased the temperature!


As a novice, A Badger, I have found this forum to be very helpful and for most people to be willing to share their experiences and provide advice. But I agree with what you say that installers should show clients how to get the most of their stove. I have read and read and read in trying to get the best out of it, and will really have to call him back and ask him to go through everything clearly.

A._Badger

grumpyoldgal wrote: »

Thank you


JB, what does IR mean please?


Tonight I have never got to the stage where I have touched the vents, once flames disappeared the room cooled significantly so for the last hour I have thrown a couple of logs on just to try to get the room warm for the last hour before bed. It certainly increased the temperature!


As a novice, A Badger, I have found this forum to be very helpful and for most people to be willing to share their experiences and provide advice. But I agree with what you say that installers should show clients how to get the most of their stove. I have read and read and read in trying to get the best out of it, and will really have to call him back and ask him to go through everything clearly.

To save the wait - by IR he means infra-red. To be frank, I don't see the point. I posted a link the other day to a Canadian site which, like me, doubts the real usefulness of thermometers. I;ve had several stoves in several properties (some of them quite demanding ancient properties) and never found the need for one. The stove either reaches the temperature you need or it doesn't - and clearly yours doesn't..A thermometer might be of some use if you were over-firing but there seems little likelihood that's the case!

I'm sure you are doing the right thing getting your installer back. You possibly have a draughting issue - and that can be fixed - or you aren't building a big enough fire or (worst possible case) the stove isn't powerful enough for the room. From what you say, that last seems unlikely, so good luck

Suki's detailed advice earlier, BTW, was as good as you are going to get from someone who hasn't actually seen your installation. If you did what she advised and it still doesn't work,I feel only an installer will be able to help.

suki1964

grumpyoldgal wrote: »

Actually still cold!!!


Suki, have just read your reply again, and in relation to your last paragraph,


"I think also people hear that smokeless burns for hours and belts out the heat, and think that's from the start. It's not so, the first half scuttle I load I burn hard and fast to get the stove and room hot. it's the top ups that last the age, as they are just keeping the stove to the temp I first get it to"


can I please ask how you do this......I keep reading this but don't know what to do. I have ordered a stove thermometer but still don't know what this is


thank you again (and for your patience with me!)

Hard and fast, I mean burning it with good flames and everything glowing red and the coals developing an ash pretty quickly. Like swipe and others, I might have to add a small log or two to get this going, as I did the day I posted as I wasn't getting a great draw cos of the weather

I've no idea what ovals I'm using, just generic smokeless. I also use anthracite which will really belt the heat out but that's a whole different ball game and won't help you until you get that stove working

I did pm you with pictures to give you an idea of what to aim for, did you get them?

I think now is the time to get your installer in again. Your room shouldn't be getting cold so quick. I stopped feeding the stove at 9pm the other night, outside temps dropped to minus 4 with a thick freezing fog, and my lounge was still a reasonable 17 in the morning

When I light mine and it gets going, the room temp will increase from 17 to 19 within the hour and will sit around 22 come the evening. Add anthracite and it's been known to get to 26


Now mum lives in the same house. She also has a stove and her room never gets as warm. She makes too small a fire and closes it down too soon so it can take a couple of hours before all her coals are red. She also has soot on her glass all the time, a sure sign the stove is burning too cold. But she won't be told