End of tenancy advice

kinger101

I thought it looked like a one sided contract as well. Could OP confirm exactly what the agreement says?

DominicJ_2

1. All belongings and rubbish must be moved including curtains, and all floor coverings including underlay
2. All gardens, sheds, loft spaces and communal areas must be cleared of rubbish
3. All alterations must be put right.
4. If any belongings are left removal will be charged to you.
5. Any damage will be charged

Belongings pops up a lot, and the bird bath and the carpets do not belong to her.
Ive told her without a dual signed inventory shes quite safe if she burns the place to the ground, but just want to double check. I think they are just trying it on, but we get on poorly as it is, if they pursue it and she gets a CCJ I'll be eternally in the dog house.

Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it goes.

I'll tell her to pursue the DSI in writing tomorrow

G_M

This is very different to what you first said:

DominicJ wrote: »

1. All belongings and rubbish (ie tenants stuff, not stuff that was already there) must be moved including curtains, and all floor coverings including underlay
2. All gardens, sheds, loft spaces and communal areas must be cleared of rubbish (fair enough - it's your rubbish)
3. All alterations must be put right.(as explained - you make changes, you change it back)
4. If any belongings are left removal will be charged to you. (your stuff)
5. Any damage will be charged

Belongings pops up a lot, and the bird bath and the carpets do not belong to her.
So either they belong to the landlord (leave them there) or they belong to the tenant (or were put there by someone during the tenant's occupation and with the tenant's consent) - in which case tenant should remove
Ive told her without a dual signed inventory shes quite safe if she burns the place to the ground,
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:Glad to see you are giving such good advice!
but just want to double check. I think they are just trying it on, but we get on poorly as it is, if they pursue it and she gets a CCJ I'll be eternally in the dog house.

Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it goes.

I'll tell her to pursue the DSI in writing tomorrow

I see nothing unusual, or uneacceptable, in this.

They are not asking the tenant to remove items that are not the tenant's responsibility.

DominicJ_2

I'm relating the story as I hear it.
Verbally, she was told she had to remove the items.
In a letter, she was told she had to remove the belongings.
Clearly the burn it to the ground was a joke...

Anyway
She has requested a copy of the dual signed inventory
They have responded that there is not one, and reiterated what they want removing.
She has asked "am I supposed to take out the gas cooker as it was installed by a previous tenant"
And they have replied
"Yes you will have to remove the cooker despite it being there when you moved in. Anything left in the property when you moved in that you made use of becomes your responsibility when you leave"


And thats as far as we are currently.

Now, I believe their final statement to have no legal merit what so ever, any attempt to with hold a deposit or pursue costs through the courts to be entirely futile.
But I'm not an expert on these matters

Hoping someone can advise with more certainty.

In summary
Verbally, they have told her to remove the carpets and cooker
In the 'agreement', they say "belongings" including carpets and cooker
In an email, they define belongings as anything she has used, specifically the cooker

Hump

Usually a HA (social rent) property is supplied stripped back empty (to the floorboards and beyond) - meaning that anything left in the property at the end of the letting becomes, in the eyes of your mother's hapless housing officer, her responsibility. This might include any 'improvements' that she has made - common issues are tenants fitting their own 'non-HA standard' kitchen/ bathroom suite/ lean to/ car port/ crazy paving - where these are fitted without formal prior written consent.


However there are exceptions to this - the main one being when someone assigns the tenancy, most commonly by way of a mutual exchange. In this scenario it is very common for the outgoing and incoming tenants to agree that certain items i.e. carpets, bird baths, wagon wheels on sides of houses etc should remain. Usually the HA will obtain the incoming tenant's signature to accept all liability for future maintenance of and eventual removal of said non-standard enhancements.


Might be worth asking your mother how she obtained her house and whether she remembers signing anything at the start of the letting

SamDunham

Just a thought, you could try speaking to a housing adviser at your local CAB? It's free and they'll deal with your LA a lot too, so might have more of an idea where they're coming from as well as you mum in laws legal rights and responsibilities.
Hope you get sorted. Moving is stressful enough without this added as well!

DTDfanBoy

DominicJ wrote: »

"
And they have replied
"Yes you will have to remove the cooker despite it being there when you moved in. Anything left in the property when you moved in that you made use of becomes your responsibility when you leave"

In summary
Verbally, they have told her to remove the carpets and cooker
In the 'agreement', they say "belongings" including carpets and cooker
In an email, they define belongings as anything she has used, specifically the cooker

Dear clueless agent,

In line with your previous email I have arranged to have everything in the flat I have used removed, I hope this is to your satisfaction.

www.ebay.co.uk/forsale1used kitchen

www.ebay.co.uk/forsale1usedcentralheatingsystem

www.ebay.co.uk/forsale1usedbathroom

www.ebay.co.uk/forsale1usedfrontdoorwithkey

DominicJ_2

Hump
No changes have been made since she moved in, beyond some decorating,
It came with carpets, a fitted kitchen, bathroom, wiring, wet central heating ect.

Sam
Will do, I was hoping someone would have a conclusive answer, it just sounds so stupid that I worry they wouldnt say it if they didnt have a chance.

DTD
Exactly my point, where does it end exactly. Shes used the stairs, shall I rip them out? Madness

I'll get on CAB and get her to ask them flat out what legal grounds they have to make these demands, see what that shakes loose.

Thanks for the suggestions.

GobbledyGook

Was she left the carpets as a favour?

A friend of mine moved into a HA property that 'should' have been stripped back to the floorboards. The housing officer knew that the outgoing tenants didn't want the carpets, flooring or blinds for their new place and knew that as she'd left her previous home due to DV she had nothing so asked if she wanted them left.

It was made very clear that it was a favour, shouldn't really have been done (likely would have got the HO in trouble I imagine) and they would be treated as her property.

Could it be something like that? therefore it would be your MIL's responsibility to move them.

AleMrsT

Thats a standard letter, it should basically read ' leave it as you found it, clean tidy, free from any belongings owned by the tenants'


EDIT - I've read additional comments. Wowzers. Write to the agent and state that 'as per your previous email, upon vacation of the premises I have instructed a demolition firm to enter the premises on XXX date, to remove all used items from the property. Therefore, we assume that no return of keys will be necessary, as there will be no use for these once the used door and lock is removed. Kind regards''