Jet2 or their Solicitors ?

NoviceAngel

Who's to blame ?

I thought it might be interesting to get some comments on who's to blame in all this, it just doesn't apply to purely Jet2 but the entire airline industry, I can only give you my story, so I thought I would share my thoughts.

This story all started off way back for me in July 2013, HERE!

Originally due to fly out from Tenerife one evening after having a lovely break with Jet2holidays, (yes not Jet2.com direct for a cheap flight!) and had to spend the night in a 'closed' airport waiting for the Jet2 plane to arrive which suffered from allegedly an 'extraordinary circumstance' at Leeds/Bradford airport.

My wife and I were due to arrive at Leeds/Bradford airport just before midnight, we live around 15-20 mins from the airport had hand luggage only and had assumed we would be back home by 1am at the latest.

We had both arranged to return to work the following day however, upon arriving at the airport for our departure we were immediately informed of a delay, no information was forthcoming as to the reasons for the delay but the flight was 'indefinitely' delayed, naturally we would return back to our hotel and perhaps enjoy an extended stay, but we were informed not to leave the airport as the Jet2 plane could arrive at any time! Really, when I found out it was subsequently still at Leeds/Bradford waiting for a component to be collected from Manchester airport?

We were also informed that the airport was not a 24hour airport, so should we leave - there would be nobody available to allow us back inside the airport.

Ohh well I guess we just stay inside the airport in those god almighty uncomfortable seats that don't allow you to go to sleep because of the fixed armrests that stop you from lying down to get any sleep.

I was also concious of the fact that both myself and my wife were shattered and if we both went to sleep, what would happen if the plane landed and nobody woke us up to catch it? I told my wife to get her head down and with all the outlets closed and only the emergency lighting left to illuminate what was already a dark and lonely place, my wife slept on the floor with her head rested on our hand luggage.

The 'free' wi-fi had long since expired so getting messages back to our employers or even the car parking Company were also a concern, I didn't sleep at all that night and finally the Jet2 flight arrived at something like 4am.

I woke my wife and we both staggered towards the Jet2 plane, I can remember little about the actual flight and even less about my drive home, although I do remember arriving home in shorts and a t-shirt thinking that we were both due in work 10 mins ago!

We obviously both lost a days pay for our 'unauthorised absence'.

Weeks later after a full recovery I wrote a nice letter to Jet2 explaining what had happened (never heard of EC regs) expecting to get a voucher or something towards another flight, I would have been ecstatic with a 'free' flight but accepting of a 25% off voucher towards our next flight.

The response from Jet2 was something I'd never experienced before, the overriding impression was - What do you expect - Planes go wrong - Not our fault - you're not entitled to compensation - we did everything we could - you have NO right to complain!

Shocked and stunned - Just thought there's a Company to avoid - Living in Yorkshire, I thought I was flying with a Yorkshire based Company that shared common values of loyalty, trust and fairness - boy I'm stupid!

So hence my battle commenced after seeing Martin mention EC261 in one of his many TV spots.

And here we are years later, with Jet2 acting beyond belief defying first Stockport, Manchester, then the High Courts, then the Supreme Court and now even defying the advice given by our very own Civil Aviation Authority (We are now friends again!)

It can't be Jet2 surely? They are advised by arguably one on the best specialist aviation lawyers in the business Messrs Twobirds, but they still act out of total desperation trying to intimidate legitimate Claimants from pursuing what is rightly theirs, just legitimate compensation due by the law of the land.

So who's at fault? Are Jet2 being badly advised or are Jet2 to blame, or are they just ignoring the advice by Twobirds and sticking up two fingers to all and sundry ?

Perhaps we will never know the answer, I just hope that the Court Judges see through their latest 'Amsterdam' Court stay request, and please let there be an end to all this FINALLY......

Vauban

I think this is a very vivid and compelling anecdote, which illustrates perfectly why this Regulation is so necessary.

I do not think it is fair or true to blame the lawyers. 2Birds are, like any legal company, hired guns, employed to advance an interpretation of the law that favors their clients. It is unfortunate that the original regulation - and indeed some of the subsequent European case law - left more wriggle room than was arguably appropriate - even if the intent of the Regulation was clear enough.

So I firmly blame the airlines. There are so many examples on here of the airlines intimidating and misleading their passengers, whose only fault was to seek to exercise their legitimate consumer rights. The behaviour of certain airlines has been nothing short of disgraceful. Where is the integrity? Why is the awareness of corporate reputation? Where are the values that prize the customer? The airline industry's response to Regulation 261/04 has been so shameful - and also so short-sighted - that it beggars belief.

But I also think that the CAA has demonstrated, through it's role in this sorry episode, that it is not fit for purpose. The list of criticisms would be a long one - for the (literally) years it took to respond to some complaints, to their role in drawing up self-evidently unlawful "guidelines" that stripped the passenger of their legl protections, to their efforts to support Jet2 in the Huzar case through representations to the Court (it would be interesting to see those, no?), to claiming - in an excruciating display of incompetence - that the Huzar judgement didn't apply retrospectively.

I know it's tough being at the wrong end of an assertive letter from an airline's lawyer, but don't confuse the monkey with the organ grinder.

111KAB

The only thing I would add to Vauban's comment is that we both witnessed the Jet2 barrister in action (Court of Appeal) and the guy is/was myopic - he really/honestly/genuinely believes he/Jet2 are 100% right and no amount of arguing/discussion will ever get him to change his view!!


In terms of passenger representation an independent ombudsman should be appointed.

NoviceAngel

111KAB wrote: »

The only thing I would add to Vauban's comment is that we both witnessed the Jet2 barrister in action (Court of Appeal) and the guy is/was myopic - he really/honestly/genuinely believes he/Jet2 are 100% right and no amount of arguing/discussion will ever get him to change his view!!


In terms of passenger representation an independent ombudsman should be appointed.

Interesting, so you think that Jet2 and Twobirds genuinely believe that their case is sound and worthy of continued legal argument?

........but that was the Court of Appeal

Shouldn't Twobirds and if Vauban is correct Jet2 accept the Supreme Court ruling?

Isn't it time just to admit defeat, I admit that there may have been 'wriggle room' in the regs, but haven't all the wriggle now been wriggled out?

All I can say is that in my private life I've had to use solicitors on a few occasions and at all times I've taken their advice - even when I've disagreed! As customers you pay them a huge hourly rate, surely one would not be so stupid to disregard their advice?

I do accept though Vaubans point that they have to follow their clients instructions, no matter how much they may disagree or agree with their position, they have to represent their client as best they can.

111KAB

It wasn't actually Two Birds but the Jet2 barrister I was referring to and I saw him in action at the Court of Appeal as obviously he never got to 'perform' at the Supreme Court. I don't think they will ever admit defeat ... even when they are defeated!

Tyzap

I'm firmly of the belief that the problems start at the top. It's the CEO's and senior management within each airline/company who dictate the ethos of the company.

If there is a belligerent streak at the top it seeps throughout the company from top to bottom.

Within the airline industry one or two companies have been 'bad apples' and tainted the whole barrel. The CAA refused to remove them before the rot really set in!

NoviceAngel

Tyzap wrote: »

If there is a belligerent streak at the top it seeps throughout the company from top to bottom.

Thanks for posting that, it does actually make things a little clearer for me, I worked for a major high street retailer their 'repair arm' of the business, I worked my way up to become a forum leader, representing a few hundred employees with direct access to the MD of our Company, a later change in MD rattled down the whole organisation and managers were asked to re-apply for their jobs and all the dead wood was removed, resulted in a much happier work environment and made our service arm profitable.

Perhaps a change of management is due then?

JPears

NoviceAngel wrote: »

Thanks for posting that, it does actually make things a little clearer for me, I worked for a major high street retailer their 'repair arm' of the business, I worked my way up to become a forum leader, representing a few hundred employees with direct access to the MD of our Company, a later change in MD rattled down the whole organisation and managers were asked to re-apply for their jobs and all the dead wood was removed, resulted in a much happier work environment and made our service arm profitable.

Perhaps a change of management is due then?

Unlikely since the original owner of Channel Express>Dart Group is still chairman and CEO.......with an estimated personal fortune of some £170M, although the DART share price has dropped some over past 12 months
Perhaps some emails to his box? pmeeson@jet2.com

NoviceAngel

JPears wrote: »

Unlikely since the original owner of Channel Express>Dart Group is still chairman and CEO.......with an estimated personal fortune of some £170M, although the DART share price has dropped some over past 12 months

It's an easy ask JP, just set aside £17M for us at MSE didn'y Dart group announce such a fund?