Zipcars handling of PCN - advice please

paulmu

My wife has managed to pick up not one, but two parking tickets while returning Zipcars. In each case the problem was that the designated car parking space was occupied, so she parked the car in an adjacent pay and display bay. Croydon Council then issued a PCN for failing to display a valid parking ticket. I wanted her to appeal these tickets, but Zipcars appear to be following a procedure very different to the one described in the guide.
We only found about the tickets yesterday, and said that we wanted to appeal to the council. It would appear that today Zipcars have already submitted our appeal to the council, had it rejected and have now submitted our final appeal to the adjudicator without giving us the opportunity collect and collate relevant evidence. I also believe they have requested a postal adjudication when we would have much preferred to have appeared in person. Surely we should have been made aware at each stage of this process!
My wife knows now that she should have phoned Zipcars before leaving the car, but was not aware of this at the time (she should have read the small print!).
Has anyone any experience of Zipcars handling of PCN's? Is this procedure normal?
Is there anything we can do or will we just have to pay up when inevitably the adjudicator rules against us due to a lack of evidence?

Coupon-mad

If it's a hire car they should have named the hirer who could then have appealed, but it depends on the terms of the Hire agreement.

paulmu

Thanks for that. Zipcars rents cars by the hour and I will be checking my wife's agreement with them tonight. She has in any event terminated her membership of the scheme. She was using the car while performing her duties as a local government officer. It would appear that Zipcars have not named her but are handling the ticket and the appeal themselves. They will then bill my wife's employer (for the amount of the penalty charge plus a £15 per ticket admin fee) who will stop the same amount from her wages. What makes it worse is that my wife's employer is the same council as issued the tickets! It would appear that in these circumstances there is no right to a fair hearing.

Johno100

paulmu wrote: »

Thanks for that. Zipcars rents cars by the hour and I will be checking my wife's agreement with them tonight. She has in any event terminated her membership of the scheme. She was using the car while performing her duties as a local government officer. It would appear that Zipcars have not named her but are handling the ticket and the appeal themselves. They will then bill my wife's employer (for the amount of the penalty charge plus a £15 per ticket admin fee) who will stop the same amount from her wages. What makes it worse is that my wife's employer is the same council as issued the tickets! It would appear that in these circumstances there is no right to a fair hearing.

So Croydon Council are going to penalise one of it's own members of staff for parking in it's own car park while undertaking her duties, the world has gone mad.

Why doesn't she wander over to the appropriate section of the council, have a word in their shell like and get it dropped?

paulmu

Johno100 wrote: »

So Croydon Council are going to penalise one of it's own members of staff for parking in it's own car park while undertaking her duties, the world has gone mad.

Why doesn't she wander over to the appropriate section of the council, have a word in their shell like and get it dropped?

You would think that, wouldn't you. Unfortunately councils are so cash strapped these day that persuading them to drop a parking ticket, particularly one issued to one of their own staff in pursuit of their duties, is virtually impossible. My wife works for Social Services, looking after the elderly, and the parking department is a separate entity, proud of the amount of additional revenue they raise for the council! Croydon Council staff have been told that if they incur a parking penalty they will have the costs docked from their wages. Needless to say my wife will be using public transport in future - it will probably halve the work she can do in a day, but hey-ho that's council logic for you!:mad:
I really wouldn't mind if she at least had the opportunity to put her own case to the adjudicator, but it seems that even this is being denied to her.

Coupon-mad

Johno100 wrote: »

So Croydon Council are going to penalise one of it's own members of staff for parking in it's own car park while undertaking her duties, the world has gone mad.

Why doesn't she wander over to the appropriate section of the council, have a word in their shell like and get it dropped?

Because appealing a Council PCN is a statutory process and you can't get one cancelled like that.

So she needs to check here Hire terms, does it say ZipCars handle all appeals or that she would be responsible for a PCN?

paulmu

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Because appealing a Council PCN is a statutory process and you can't get one cancelled like that.

So she needs to check here Hire terms, does it say ZipCars handle all appeals or that she would be responsible for a PCN?

I have started wading through the small print. Having seen it, I can't understand why anyone would sign up for this service!

Needless to say Zipcars reserve the right to handle appeals, although their literature claims that clients are normally given the opportunity to defend themselves. The situation here is complicated by the fact that the PCN's were issued after the cars were returned. The Zipcars T's and C's say that clients are responsible for penalty charges incurred by Zipcars as a result of a car being left other than in a designated space. They do not say that clients are responsible for the PCN itself. Hence Zipcars can simply pay the PCN and bill the customer without giving them any right of challenge.

Zipcars T's and C's are terribly one sided and I would advise anyone to steer well clear until they do something about this.

Coupon-mad

I would write to Zipcars and ask why she wasn't given the chance to appeal as driver? I am guessing they were sent NTOs but when did they tell her about it all?

Also if these were 'failure to display', surely there was a windscreen ticket first that she could have appealed, as that cannot be done by ANPR camera (postal PCN).

Johno100

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would write to Zipcars and ask why she wasn't given the chance to appeal as driver? I am guessing they were sent NTOs but when did they tell her about it all?

Also if these were 'failure to display', surely there was a windscreen ticket first that she could have appealed, as that cannot be done by ANPR camera (postal PCN).

If I understand correctly the vehicle was windscreen ticketed after it was parked up at the end of it's hire period, so the OP's wife would not have returned to the vehicle to see and collect the ticket.

paulmu

Johno100 wrote: »

If I understand correctly the vehicle was windscreen ticketed after it was parked up at the end of it's hire period, so the OP's wife would not have returned to the vehicle to see and collect the ticket.

Spot on Johno, my wife was unaware of any issue until late on Tuesday this week when she received multiple emails from Zipcars bearing the unwelcome news. The tickets date back to August 28th and September 1st. Is the delay between the ticket issue and Zipcars contacting my wife unusually long?

We have already written to Zipcars asking why my wife was not named by them as the driver and given the opportunity to appeal the tickets herself. I have to say that Zipcars attitude in this matter has been less than helpful, so I expect them to refer back to the terms of the rental agreement which allow them to simply pay the tickets and bill the customer.

A schedule to the zipcars contract states

8.1
You are responsible for any traffic violations incurred during your reservation or as a result of your use of a Zipcar vehicle. These include, but are not limited to parking, speeding, red light, photo enforcement, and toll violations. You are liable for all penalties/fees from any such violation, including fines for late payment and any processing penalties/fees added by the issuing municipality. You are liable for payment of all tolls and any fines for toll evasion. Wherever possible it is the Member's responsibility to pay the relevant authorities directly. Zipcar may impose a fee of up to £20 in connection with processing any such violations. You must report such violations to a Zipcar Representative as soon as possible within the prescribed deadline for the violation (for example, if the case is being taken to court). See our Additional charges schedule.


8.2
You must notify Zipcar of any traffic violation notices found on a vehicle at the time of pickup of the vehicle. All unreported traffic violations will be the responsibility of a Member if they occur during the time period during which such Member is using or responsible for the Zipcar vehicle.


8.3
At the end of your reservation, you must not leave a vehicle in a zone which has parking restrictions. If you leave the vehicle in such a restricted zone, you must immediately notify Zipcar, and you will be responsible for any and all violation notices or towing charges incurred by Zipcar.


8.4
Where a violation, incurred during the Member's Reservation Period or after it as a result of failure to adhere to parking regulations, is sent directly to Zipcar, Zipcar will either pay the penalty/fee on behalf of the Member and then add the penalty/fee to the Member's account or Zipcar may, if permitted by the authority issuing the violation, transfer liability for the penalty/fee notice to the Member and the Member will then be wholly responsible for all correspondence with the appropriate authority and any penalties/fees due. Zipcar will always inform a Member which one of these two courses of action it has taken, and will endeavour to provide notice to Members before it pays any penalties/fees attributable to them. Once paid by Zipcar, it may not be possible for the Member to challenge the penalty/fee. The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion. In the case of speeding notices, Zipcar is obliged by law to pass on the offending Member's details to the police who will then contact the Member directly.


Basically Zipcars can deal with issues however they like and their is nothing the customer can do about it.


To be fair my wife did sign the contract, but she is one of those people who always assumes that companies will act fairly ( unlike me who always believes they are always out to stitch me up!). She rarely if ever reads the small print and this is not the first time she has been caught out by this failing ( although I don't think her mistake has ever been quite so expensive!). Sadly I can see no way of avoiding these bills as they will be deducted from her wages. It would have been nice to have been able to withhold payment and force Zipcars in to court to justify their actions.

HO87

This thread has p*ssed me off that much I can't actually compose a meaningful response. Other than to say that Zipcars are clearly seeking to cover their ar*es to the extent that their terms completely override any rights of appeal.

Assuming that her terms of employment do not explicitly cover such an eventuality, if the council seek to stop any charges out of the OP's OH's wages then she should raise a formal concern now - ahead of any stoppage. She should resist such a stoppage on the basis that the terms remove her rights of appeal and in any event as the terms are unilaterally imposed [on her] as the result of a pre-existing contract between Zipcars and her employers that it is her employers that have de facto removed that right. May slow things down if nothing else.

I suspect that this is not the first time that people (possibly other employees) have been caught out in exactly this same scenario. If Zipcars are aware of that then they should be bringing this to the attention of hirers before they venture off.